Chamber
Plenary, 28 Feb 2002
28 Feb 2002 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Education (Disability Strategies and Pupils' Records) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I reiterate Brian Monteith's comment that the Scottish Conservatives welcome the bill.
I will make two brief points on disability strategies, both of which relate to the question of costs. A number of members, including Ian Jenkins, referred to the costs involved in first drawing up and then implementing a strategy and to the burden that those costs would put on education authorities. I trust that the deputy minister will address that question when he winds up. Ian Jenkins also made a good point about the impact that such costs might have on small rural schools.
A related issue is that of the costs for independent schools. I have an interest in independent schools, not because I went to an independent school but because I believe in freedom of choice for parents. In an area such as Perth and Kinross, which falls within the Mid Scotland and Fife region, independent schools are an important part of the local economy. They directly employ around 700 people and indirectly support many other jobs in the community.
The Minister for Education and Young People is aware that I have been in correspondence with her on the subject of the impact of disability strategies on independent schools—in fact, this week she wrote to me on that very topic. Not so long ago, the Labour party had a policy of opposing independent schools, but I trust that we are in a new age and in more enlightened times.
I also want to mention the situation of independent schools that are grant aided, such as specialist schools for the deaf and the blind. Independent schools often find themselves in a difficult economic position. In Perth and Kinross over the past two years, Croftinloan School in Pitlochry has closed and Rannoch School has come under pressure. There is a misconception that independent schools are dripping in wealth. Extra burdens that are put upon them could threaten their future viability.
The briefing from the Scottish Parliament information centre refers to correspondence from the bursar of Fettes College—the alma mater of the Labour Prime Minister—in which concern was expressed about the
"potential financial consequences of adequately resourcing disability access strategies."
The Executive estimates that the cost of drawing up a strategy will be £8,400. In itself, that is not a substantial sum, but it all adds up. The cost of implementing a strategy is of more concern. For example, the costs could be very high for a boarding school.
The bursar of Fettes College referred to the problems associated with listed buildings, which could involve substantial costs. For some listed buildings, such as Fettes College or George Heriot's School, the alterations that would be required to comply with a disability strategy would be extremely expensive, if not impossible to meet. There is concern in the independent school sector about those issues and I ask the deputy minister to respond to them when he winds up the debate.
I conclude by welcoming the bill, which will promote equal access to schools for pupils with disabilities.
I will make two brief points on disability strategies, both of which relate to the question of costs. A number of members, including Ian Jenkins, referred to the costs involved in first drawing up and then implementing a strategy and to the burden that those costs would put on education authorities. I trust that the deputy minister will address that question when he winds up. Ian Jenkins also made a good point about the impact that such costs might have on small rural schools.
A related issue is that of the costs for independent schools. I have an interest in independent schools, not because I went to an independent school but because I believe in freedom of choice for parents. In an area such as Perth and Kinross, which falls within the Mid Scotland and Fife region, independent schools are an important part of the local economy. They directly employ around 700 people and indirectly support many other jobs in the community.
The Minister for Education and Young People is aware that I have been in correspondence with her on the subject of the impact of disability strategies on independent schools—in fact, this week she wrote to me on that very topic. Not so long ago, the Labour party had a policy of opposing independent schools, but I trust that we are in a new age and in more enlightened times.
I also want to mention the situation of independent schools that are grant aided, such as specialist schools for the deaf and the blind. Independent schools often find themselves in a difficult economic position. In Perth and Kinross over the past two years, Croftinloan School in Pitlochry has closed and Rannoch School has come under pressure. There is a misconception that independent schools are dripping in wealth. Extra burdens that are put upon them could threaten their future viability.
The briefing from the Scottish Parliament information centre refers to correspondence from the bursar of Fettes College—the alma mater of the Labour Prime Minister—in which concern was expressed about the
"potential financial consequences of adequately resourcing disability access strategies."
The Executive estimates that the cost of drawing up a strategy will be £8,400. In itself, that is not a substantial sum, but it all adds up. The cost of implementing a strategy is of more concern. For example, the costs could be very high for a boarding school.
The bursar of Fettes College referred to the problems associated with listed buildings, which could involve substantial costs. For some listed buildings, such as Fettes College or George Heriot's School, the alterations that would be required to comply with a disability strategy would be extremely expensive, if not impossible to meet. There is concern in the independent school sector about those issues and I ask the deputy minister to respond to them when he winds up the debate.
I conclude by welcoming the bill, which will promote equal access to schools for pupils with disabilities.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr Murray Tosh):
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-2563, in the name of Cathy Jamieson, on the general principles of the Education (Disability Strategies an...
The Minister for Education and Young People (Cathy Jamieson):
Lab
I am glad to uphold that precedent with your permission, Presiding Officer. I would not otherwise have dared to say that I am glad to see pupils from Belmont...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
The SNP warmly welcomes the use of primary legislation to introduce education accessibility strategies, and fully supports the bill's general principles. How...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
On behalf of the Conservatives, I am pleased to welcome the bill. We welcome it because it aims to improve access to school education for pupils who have dis...
Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
On pupils' records, which form a minor part of the bill, there are two key issues. One issue is confidentiality, which is important, and the other issue is t...
Mr Monteith:
Con
Certainly. I have no difficulty in saying that the authority in question was Fife Council. I do not want to go into more detail, because the matter is curren...
Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
The motion is easy to support. I cannot imagine that anyone would disagree with the bill's general principles, which seek to ensure that responsible authorit...
Michael Russell:
SNP
Mr Jenkins made a valid point about small rural schools. Some authorities might regard those rural schools as too expensive to continue in operation if the a...
Ian Jenkins:
LD
I agree.In the long term, we do ourselves no favours if we gloss over those genuine concerns because they relate to complicated and sensitive issues that rel...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):
Lab
My colleagues in the Labour party and I have long held the belief that education is the key to unlocking opportunity in later life. It is not the privilege o...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
I advise members that the prospect is that we may require to bring forward decision time and members' business today. I say that also for the benefit of busi...
Michael Matheson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I will continue the consensus by warmly welcoming the bill. However, it is important that what the bill can achieve is kept in context.As Jackie Baillie said...
Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the bill. Although, considered in isolation, it addresses only one aspect of educational need, it should be seen as one plank in a raft of measures...
Kate Maclean (Dundee West) (Lab):
Lab
The Equal Opportunities Committee considered the bill and contributed to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee's stage 1 report. In an open letter to th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
Before we go on to wrap-up speeches, I inform members that I anticipate that the debate will finish around 4.40 or 4.45. With the agreement of members, I wil...
Mr Frank McAveety (Glasgow Shettleston) (Lab):
Lab
I am filling in for Karen Gillon at short notice, so I ask members to bear with me.Colleagues from the committee have already identified some of the key issu...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I reiterate Brian Monteith's comment that the Scottish Conservatives welcome the bill.I will make two brief points on disability strategies, both of which re...
Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I also shall be brief. There is overwhelming unanimity in the chamber about the bill. We are now into discussions about the detail of how the bill will proce...
The Deputy Minister for Education and Young People (Nicol Stephen):
LD
I would like to continue the constructive tone. I agree with Michael Russell's final remarks about the spirit in which the bill has been debated so far. We h...
Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
Will the minister give way?
Nicol Stephen:
LD
I shall, but let me just finish.Schools should take reasonable steps to ensure that such children can participate fully in school trips. For example, schools...
Dr Ewing:
SNP
Should accessibility strategies always include deaf children who do not attend schools for the deaf?
Nicol Stephen:
LD
Yes, of course. To answer Dr Ewing's question, let me say that I was pleased that contributors to the debate—especially Jackie Baillie—stressed that the bill...
Michael Russell:
SNP
The minister has highlighted the link between the bill and the record of needs legislation, of which he has acknowledged that radical reform is needed. Can h...
Nicol Stephen:
LD
The short answer is no. I cannot give such an indication today. Announcements on legislative proposals are made as part of the full legislative programme tha...
Irene McGugan:
SNP
Will the minister take an intervention?
Nicol Stephen:
LD
I would be happy to take one final intervention.
Irene McGugan:
SNP
I very much appreciate the minister's giving way. Will he clarify what he said a moment ago about the avenues for redress that are available under different ...
Nicol Stephen:
LD
That is an issue that we debate often. All of us are anxious to ensure that there is as much consistency as possible between the disability legislation and t...