Chamber
Plenary, 06 Feb 2002
06 Feb 2002 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Community Care and Health (Scotland) Bill
I thank everyone who has been involved with the bill over the past four and a half months. That includes a great many people. Within the Parliament, I thank all four committees that were involved with the bill at stage 1. I thank in particular the Health and Community Care Committee, which did so much work on the bill at each stage, providing excellent questions and stimulating debate and detailed scrutiny of the draft legislation. I thank the clerks to the committee and the other parliamentary officers who helped with the bill. I thank the members of the bill team who worked long and hard to make it a success. At times I marvel at how they, and committee staff, manage to meet almost impossible deadlines. I also thank the large number of members of the public, voluntary groups and other organisations who have made an important input by participating in the consultations on the bill's provisions and in the parliamentary process.
However, it is clear from the letters that I am receiving that not everyone fully understands who will benefit and what the effects of the bill will be. Many people already receive free personal care; the bill extends that entitlement. We are preparing an information campaign to ensure that older people, their families and carers are informed of what the policy will deliver. As members have indicated, the bill has received widespread support. It is a major step forward in improving care in Scotland.
Shona Robison and Janis Hughes mentioned carers. My colleague Mary Mulligan has already apologised for the late lodging of certain amendments. In the spirit of consensus, I should point out that the blame for that lies fully with Janis Hughes. Her dogged determination to protect carers' interests and to ensure that carers are not fobbed off led to detailed negotiations and discussions and subsequently to the late amendments, which are purely and simply meant to protect the position of carers in Scotland. I pay tribute to Janis for her work.
Mary Scanlon raised a number of detailed points and questions that unfortunately cannot be answered in this stage 3 debate—I think that she was making up for all the weeks when she did not have a voice. Nevertheless, some of her concerns will be addressed in the coming months and I am sure that members of the Health and Community Care Committee will raise them again as they continue to scrutinise the development of free personal care provision.
Several members mentioned joint working. The issue was well discussed at stage 2 in the committee. Joint working is absolutely necessary. Although I hope that such working will develop on the basis of co-operation, we have ensured that, where joint working is not effective, we can implement further measures.
Ben Wallace mentioned the fact that he had met the Faculty and Institute of Actuaries. It has been suggested that actuaries are people who think that accountancy is too exciting; in that case, meeting Ben Wallace must have been an orgasmic experience for them. I also listened with interest to John McAllion's definition of hyena socialism, which would probably take some of our debates on to a more voracious level.
In response to members' questions, I can say that there will be no further delays. We are fully committed to meeting the bill's objectives; the money is in place and we look forward to working towards the bill's implementation. I regret Nicola Sturgeon's slightly negative contribution. She turned the Parliament's moment of pride over such a major achievement into another opportunity to criticise and to have a whine about Westminster.
Although the bill represents a substantial piece of work, a great deal more still has to be done after today's debate. I stress the importance of the on-going implementation work and the regulations that will follow in the bill's wake. I am sure that the Health and Community Care Committee is looking forward to giving both its careful scrutiny.
As Henry McLeish and other members have pointed out, we should recognise the achievement that the bill represents and the improvements in care that we will be able to deliver as a result of it. The bill is part of the biggest package of support to older people that the country has ever seen. With the introduction of free personal care and other aspects of care delivery, alongside measures such as concessionary travel across Scotland and central heating programmes, the Parliament is simply repaying the sacrifice that our parents' generation made in the creation of a welfare state. Although, as John McAllion suggests, people of our generation might be selfish in how they prepare for their old age, I am proud that we have done something to repay our huge debt to our parents' generation.
I thank everyone for their support and their efforts over the past couple of months, and I ask the chamber to join me in voting for the bill to be passed.
However, it is clear from the letters that I am receiving that not everyone fully understands who will benefit and what the effects of the bill will be. Many people already receive free personal care; the bill extends that entitlement. We are preparing an information campaign to ensure that older people, their families and carers are informed of what the policy will deliver. As members have indicated, the bill has received widespread support. It is a major step forward in improving care in Scotland.
Shona Robison and Janis Hughes mentioned carers. My colleague Mary Mulligan has already apologised for the late lodging of certain amendments. In the spirit of consensus, I should point out that the blame for that lies fully with Janis Hughes. Her dogged determination to protect carers' interests and to ensure that carers are not fobbed off led to detailed negotiations and discussions and subsequently to the late amendments, which are purely and simply meant to protect the position of carers in Scotland. I pay tribute to Janis for her work.
Mary Scanlon raised a number of detailed points and questions that unfortunately cannot be answered in this stage 3 debate—I think that she was making up for all the weeks when she did not have a voice. Nevertheless, some of her concerns will be addressed in the coming months and I am sure that members of the Health and Community Care Committee will raise them again as they continue to scrutinise the development of free personal care provision.
Several members mentioned joint working. The issue was well discussed at stage 2 in the committee. Joint working is absolutely necessary. Although I hope that such working will develop on the basis of co-operation, we have ensured that, where joint working is not effective, we can implement further measures.
Ben Wallace mentioned the fact that he had met the Faculty and Institute of Actuaries. It has been suggested that actuaries are people who think that accountancy is too exciting; in that case, meeting Ben Wallace must have been an orgasmic experience for them. I also listened with interest to John McAllion's definition of hyena socialism, which would probably take some of our debates on to a more voracious level.
In response to members' questions, I can say that there will be no further delays. We are fully committed to meeting the bill's objectives; the money is in place and we look forward to working towards the bill's implementation. I regret Nicola Sturgeon's slightly negative contribution. She turned the Parliament's moment of pride over such a major achievement into another opportunity to criticise and to have a whine about Westminster.
Although the bill represents a substantial piece of work, a great deal more still has to be done after today's debate. I stress the importance of the on-going implementation work and the regulations that will follow in the bill's wake. I am sure that the Health and Community Care Committee is looking forward to giving both its careful scrutiny.
As Henry McLeish and other members have pointed out, we should recognise the achievement that the bill represents and the improvements in care that we will be able to deliver as a result of it. The bill is part of the biggest package of support to older people that the country has ever seen. With the introduction of free personal care and other aspects of care delivery, alongside measures such as concessionary travel across Scotland and central heating programmes, the Parliament is simply repaying the sacrifice that our parents' generation made in the creation of a welfare state. Although, as John McAllion suggests, people of our generation might be selfish in how they prepare for their old age, I am proud that we have done something to repay our huge debt to our parents' generation.
I thank everyone for their support and their efforts over the past couple of months, and I ask the chamber to join me in voting for the bill to be passed.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr Murray Tosh):
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-2678, in the name of Malcolm Chisholm, which seeks agreement that the Community Care and Health (Scotland...
The Minister for Health and Community Care (Malcolm Chisholm):
Lab
I am pleased to be opening a stage 3 debate for the first time. We may celebrate the new parliamentary procedures that have been working so well throughout t...
Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
On behalf of the SNP, I am pleased to support the Community Care and Health (Scotland) Bill at its third and final stage.I want to place on record my thanks ...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
On behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, I support the bill. I thank all those who contributed to and supported the passage of the bill, including the witnes...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
I will break in to assure the members who are waiting their turn that I am confident that everybody will be called.
Mary Scanlon:
Con
I am on my final point. Perhaps you mean that I should take another 20 minutes, Presiding Officer.I welcome the introduction of direct payments, which will b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
I should perhaps make it clear that, as we anticipate that we might require a motion without notice to bring forward decision time, I am reasonably relaxed a...
Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I am delighted to take part in today's debate and support the Community Care and Health (Scotland) Bill, which will provide a real improvement in community c...
Henry McLeish (Central Fife) (Lab):
Lab
I would like to say a few words at the conclusion of the debate on this bill. I would like to congratulate the Executive—Malcolm Chisholm and the new ministe...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I, too, welcome the passage of the bill, which is an important piece of legislation. It represents a considerable improvement in the quality of life of carer...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
I have been relaxed about the time until now. A couple of additional members have pressed their request-to-speak buttons and we are back on course—ordinarily...
Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab):
Lab
I begin my contribution as a member of the Health and Community Care Committee by thanking the clerks and everyone involved with the bill. The clerks to the ...
Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con):
Con
The bill is indeed a good-news story for the Parliament. The Scottish Conservatives believe that free personal care represents not only socially just funding...
Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
Does Mr Wallace still believe that?
Ben Wallace:
Con
Oh yes. Mr Rumbles should not believe everything that he reads in The Scotsman.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
I would not linger, Mr Wallace. Mrs Scanlon took up much of your time.
Ben Wallace:
Con
I hope that, as a result of the bill, we will see an end to the historical debates between—
Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Ben Wallace:
Con
Yes.
Margaret Jamieson:
Lab
Ben Wallace has welcomed free personal care. Will he clarify whether that is the view of the Scottish Tories or the view of the UK Tories?
Ben Wallace:
Con
I would be delighted to clarify that. If Margaret Jamieson had read The Herald, she would have seen that Iain Duncan Smith is thinking of adopting the policy...
Rhona Brankin (Midlothian) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
No, the member is finishing.
Ben Wallace:
Con
I also thank Henry McLeish for standing up against considerable opposition in his party to achieve the provision of free personal care. I say to him that est...
Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab):
Lab
I, too, welcome the bill and in particular the critical role that my good comrade Henry McLeish played in delivering it. I thought that his speech was the hi...
Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West):
*
I warmly welcome the bill and particularly the proposals for free personal and nursing care for elderly people, which are in accordance with the recommendati...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab):
Lab
I am grateful for the opportunity to put on record my whole-hearted support for this progressive bill. It is obvious from the speeches of members of all part...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
Like other members, I welcome the bill and pay tribute to the ministers, members of the Health and Community Care Committee, MSPs and people outside the Parl...
The Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care (Hugh Henry):
Lab
I thank everyone who has been involved with the bill over the past four and a half months. That includes a great many people. Within the Parliament, I thank ...