Chamber
Plenary, 28 Nov 2001
28 Nov 2001 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Community Care and Health (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I offer my congratulations to the new minister and his two deputies. I also extend my good wishes to Susan Deacon. As Margaret Smith said, two of the three ministers have come from the Health and Community Care Committee. All bring with them invaluable parliamentary experience that will be helpful in the months ahead.
I am pleased to be able to speak in today's debate. Community care has been at the heart of the work of the Parliament since it was set up and I know the hours of effort that the Health and Community Care Committee has devoted to this subject, first with its community care inquiry and, more recently, in taking evidence in connection with this bill. Today seems a little bit like a reunion as Kay Ullrich and I, both former members of the Health and Community Care Committee, are back in the debate. It is nice to be here. The Parliament owes the committee members and convener its thanks.
When the Scottish Parliament was set up, many of us said that the test of its success would be whether it changed lives for the better. There cannot be a clearer demonstration of that than the potential that the bill offers for our older people. Other speakers have made pertinent points about the opportunities that the bill presents. There is widespread agreement that an assessment of the needs of carers is a welcome development. As well as ensuring that local authorities have a duty to inform carers of their rights, we must ensure that there is adequate follow-through on assessments. Carers must not be left feeling that assessments have been bogus exercises. I take heart from the minister's comments and look forward to seeing his proposals at stage 2.
The minister mentioned equity and fairness. Those involved in caring for the elderly will whole-heartedly endorse those principles. As the minister said, they must translate into tangible benefits. I join others in welcoming the minister's commitment to introducing a definition of personal care. I ask him, when he defines personal care, to take careful account of the nutritional needs of the elderly. To keep old people healthy, we must ensure that they eat properly in hospital, in residential accommodation and at home. Unfortunately, research has shown that many older people in care and in the community are undernourished. For those with Alzheimer's disease or dementia, the provision of a cooked meal is just as important as ensuring that they take their medication. For others who are physically frail, assistance with eating is needed. That is part of good health and must be recognised.
Few would disagree with what I am saying. There is a voluntary group in my area that prevents those on the margins of maintaining independence in the community from going into care. Despite that, the group is unable to obtain funding because it does not provide a statutory service. It falls between the health board and social services department. Recognising the importance of nutritional needs as part of personal care would better allow old people to benefit from voluntary provision. That brings me to joint working, which all of us welcome. It is important that voluntary organisations are integrated fully into the process of caring.
A challenging agenda lies ahead, particularly for smaller local authorities in which management and staffing structures are lean. Although my local authority fully supports the principles of the bill, it would welcome assurances that it will be guided and supported in implementing the major but welcome policy shift.
The debate has been useful. I hope that the message goes out from the Parliament that we value our old people and that we are committed to ensuring dignity in old age. I support the motion.
I am pleased to be able to speak in today's debate. Community care has been at the heart of the work of the Parliament since it was set up and I know the hours of effort that the Health and Community Care Committee has devoted to this subject, first with its community care inquiry and, more recently, in taking evidence in connection with this bill. Today seems a little bit like a reunion as Kay Ullrich and I, both former members of the Health and Community Care Committee, are back in the debate. It is nice to be here. The Parliament owes the committee members and convener its thanks.
When the Scottish Parliament was set up, many of us said that the test of its success would be whether it changed lives for the better. There cannot be a clearer demonstration of that than the potential that the bill offers for our older people. Other speakers have made pertinent points about the opportunities that the bill presents. There is widespread agreement that an assessment of the needs of carers is a welcome development. As well as ensuring that local authorities have a duty to inform carers of their rights, we must ensure that there is adequate follow-through on assessments. Carers must not be left feeling that assessments have been bogus exercises. I take heart from the minister's comments and look forward to seeing his proposals at stage 2.
The minister mentioned equity and fairness. Those involved in caring for the elderly will whole-heartedly endorse those principles. As the minister said, they must translate into tangible benefits. I join others in welcoming the minister's commitment to introducing a definition of personal care. I ask him, when he defines personal care, to take careful account of the nutritional needs of the elderly. To keep old people healthy, we must ensure that they eat properly in hospital, in residential accommodation and at home. Unfortunately, research has shown that many older people in care and in the community are undernourished. For those with Alzheimer's disease or dementia, the provision of a cooked meal is just as important as ensuring that they take their medication. For others who are physically frail, assistance with eating is needed. That is part of good health and must be recognised.
Few would disagree with what I am saying. There is a voluntary group in my area that prevents those on the margins of maintaining independence in the community from going into care. Despite that, the group is unable to obtain funding because it does not provide a statutory service. It falls between the health board and social services department. Recognising the importance of nutritional needs as part of personal care would better allow old people to benefit from voluntary provision. That brings me to joint working, which all of us welcome. It is important that voluntary organisations are integrated fully into the process of caring.
A challenging agenda lies ahead, particularly for smaller local authorities in which management and staffing structures are lean. Although my local authority fully supports the principles of the bill, it would welcome assurances that it will be guided and supported in implementing the major but welcome policy shift.
The debate has been useful. I hope that the message goes out from the Parliament that we value our old people and that we are committed to ensuring dignity in old age. I support the motion.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
Our next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-2247, in the name of Susan Deacon, on the general principles of the Community Care and Health (Scotland) ...
The Minister for Health and Community Care (Malcolm Chisholm):
Lab
There have been many significant developments in community care in this Parliament's lifetime, and the Community Care and Health (Scotland) Bill marks a furt...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the new minister to his post and wish him well in the job. I congratulate the two new deputy health ministers, although it is perhaps appropriate t...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
Does the member recognise that all 19 Conservatives voted in favour of free personal care? Will she endorse that fact?
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
I accept that, but it was the 19 years that preceded those 19 votes that led to me to make that judgment about the Conservative party. The real threat to fre...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I congratulate the new minister. That he has gone from being a member of the Health and Community Care Committee and back-bench rebel to Minister for Health ...
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
I want to point out that that was not correctly transcribed because, if members think about it, what I said was that free personal care could be regarded as ...
Mary Scanlon:
Con
My quote came from the Official Report.Page 67 of the Sutherland report states that personal care"falls within the internationally recognised definition of n...
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
I am sure that the member will accept that clinics are hardly an institutional setting. Does she accept that not only the number of visits but their length a...
Mary Scanlon:
Con
I welcome the minister's point about increases in funding, but as I think all members of the Health and Community Care Committee have said, we are looking fo...
Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome Malcolm Chisholm to his new job as Minister for Health and Community Care. As Nicola Sturgeon said, that is one of the most difficult jobs in Gover...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
We move now to open debate. Sir David announced that time would be tight, but some speakers have dropped out since then, so I shall allow up to five minutes ...
Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab):
Lab
I record my congratulations to Malcolm Chisholm, Mary Mulligan and Hugh Henry on their appointments, and I look forward to working with them in the coming mo...
Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
I congratulate Malcolm Chisholm on his appointment. We have known each other for a long time in different roles and I am sure that he will bring to the job h...
Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab):
Lab
I echo the comments that have been made elsewhere in the chamber and offer my congratulations to Malcolm Chisholm and to the two new Deputy Ministers for Hea...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
When this matter was first debated, there was a consensus that the bill was an important piece of legislation. It is a sad fact that none of us is getting an...
Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I do not know why Bill Aitken is so worried about blank cheques. He knows perfectly well that one has been issued to pay for the new Parliament. Anything tha...
Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD):
LD
I congratulate the new health team, wish them well in their work and pay tribute to Susan Deacon for her contribution as our first Minister for Health and Co...
Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab):
Lab
I offer my congratulations to the new minister and his two deputies. I also extend my good wishes to Susan Deacon. As Margaret Smith said, two of the three m...
Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
I take part in the debate with great personal pleasure. That is partly because, as I am now on the wrong side of 50, I am keen to ensure that as much as poss...
Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I want to reiterate the point made anent the £20 million attendance allowances that are being held back by the UK Exchequer, to which the people of Scotland ...
Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con):
Con
If Scotland was independent, will Mr Campbell tell us where he would find the £20 million? Whom would he tax to get the £20 million to provide free personal ...
Colin Campbell:
SNP
We have already paid the money in tax to the United Kingdom Exchequer; it is sitting there as part of the totals that we have already paid in. Good try, Mr W...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
If members want their time to be extended, permission will gladly be given on this occasion.
Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):
Lab
I add my congratulations to Malcolm Chisholm and his two new deputies. I wish them well in their new role. I pay tribute to the work of Susan Deacon, our for...
Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD):
LD
I welcome the minister to his new post. When I first became a spokesman on health, there seemed to be at least two health debates a week. I was thrown in at ...
Members:
Go on.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Order. Carry on, Mr Raffan.
Mr Raffan:
LD
A lot has happened since then, not least in the past few days—so that period is almost pre-history. We have come a long way since the Minister for Parliament...
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
Will the member give way?