Chamber
Plenary, 07 Mar 2001
07 Mar 2001 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Regulation of Care (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Although we have lodged amendment S1M-1523.1, the Scottish Conservatives welcome the broad principles of the Regulation of Care (Scotland) Bill. We particularly welcome the principles of the bill as they were developed around and built on the proposals in the report of the working group on residential care home registration procedures, which was published in 1996 by the Conservative Government. Those proposals were pursued further in March 1999, in the white paper "Aiming for Excellence".
The amendment expresses reservations about the level of charges and consequent supply of services and fits into the new procedures that were outlined by the Presiding Officer on 9 February. We lodged the amendment simply because so many organisations expressed their concerns in submissions and evidence to the Health and Community Care Committee.
In addressing my amendment, I will raise the concerns of many organisations about the huge increases in registration and inspection fees and the likely impact of those increases on services and the provision of care. I hope that those concerns will be considered in the constructive way in which I will raise them.
Two figures highlight the point. The first is the increase from £2,600 to £7,000 in fees for a residential care home, despite the fact, as members know, that many residential care homes are struggling to stay in existence as matters stand. The second is that day care centres, most of which are funded by voluntary and charitable organisations, will eventually pay fees of between £1,400 and £1,800. Those organisations have expressed genuine concerns that I hope the minister will address.
I bring to the attention of members who are not members of the Health and Community Care Committee some of the concerns that organisations raised with the committee. In its written submission, Age Concern said:
"Age Concern believes that the imposition of Fees for registering as a care provider may have a detrimental effect on the provision of services for older people, particularly if those fees were significantly high."
I hear what the minister said about local authorities increasing funding for services and I read what the financial memorandum said about COSLA, but many voluntary organisations have been on standstill budgets for some years while others have not received increases in funding that are in line with inflation. While I welcome the fact that the minister is addressing those concerns, I hope that there will be no diminution of services.
Age Concern's submission continues:
"In addition, we believe that any charge should relate to the size and turnover of the registered body. A flat rate fee would discriminate against smaller operations".
There are many such operations in remote and rural areas.
Capability Scotland said:
"The unintended consequences of the additional costs could be either fewer services for people who need them or greater charitable donations from members of the public."
Who should carry the financial burden of caring for the most vulnerable people in our society?
Capability Scotland might find itself caught by an inability to meet the standards—which we all support—if the local authority and the health authority that purchase its service do not provide the funding that is required to raise the quality of that service.
Capability Scotland also spoke about the ratio of staff to children with complex learning disabilities, which can be between 1:3 and 1:4 and requires greater funding than other services. The necessity of such a ratio may not be agreed on, so it may not be funded. The outcome of that could be that voluntary sector providers such as Capability Scotland will fill funding shortfalls through their own fundraising efforts. However, ultimately, a service provider's failure to meet the required standards could result in suspension or removal of registration.
The figures that Capability Scotland has suggested are: an additional £50,000 a year for payment of fees for registration and inspection after 2004; £12,000 a year for Scottish Criminal Record Office checks; £150,000 over three years for workplace assessors for Scottish vocational qualifications at levels 2 and 3; and additional training costs.
The amendment expresses reservations about the level of charges and consequent supply of services and fits into the new procedures that were outlined by the Presiding Officer on 9 February. We lodged the amendment simply because so many organisations expressed their concerns in submissions and evidence to the Health and Community Care Committee.
In addressing my amendment, I will raise the concerns of many organisations about the huge increases in registration and inspection fees and the likely impact of those increases on services and the provision of care. I hope that those concerns will be considered in the constructive way in which I will raise them.
Two figures highlight the point. The first is the increase from £2,600 to £7,000 in fees for a residential care home, despite the fact, as members know, that many residential care homes are struggling to stay in existence as matters stand. The second is that day care centres, most of which are funded by voluntary and charitable organisations, will eventually pay fees of between £1,400 and £1,800. Those organisations have expressed genuine concerns that I hope the minister will address.
I bring to the attention of members who are not members of the Health and Community Care Committee some of the concerns that organisations raised with the committee. In its written submission, Age Concern said:
"Age Concern believes that the imposition of Fees for registering as a care provider may have a detrimental effect on the provision of services for older people, particularly if those fees were significantly high."
I hear what the minister said about local authorities increasing funding for services and I read what the financial memorandum said about COSLA, but many voluntary organisations have been on standstill budgets for some years while others have not received increases in funding that are in line with inflation. While I welcome the fact that the minister is addressing those concerns, I hope that there will be no diminution of services.
Age Concern's submission continues:
"In addition, we believe that any charge should relate to the size and turnover of the registered body. A flat rate fee would discriminate against smaller operations".
There are many such operations in remote and rural areas.
Capability Scotland said:
"The unintended consequences of the additional costs could be either fewer services for people who need them or greater charitable donations from members of the public."
Who should carry the financial burden of caring for the most vulnerable people in our society?
Capability Scotland might find itself caught by an inability to meet the standards—which we all support—if the local authority and the health authority that purchase its service do not provide the funding that is required to raise the quality of that service.
Capability Scotland also spoke about the ratio of staff to children with complex learning disabilities, which can be between 1:3 and 1:4 and requires greater funding than other services. The necessity of such a ratio may not be agreed on, so it may not be funded. The outcome of that could be that voluntary sector providers such as Capability Scotland will fill funding shortfalls through their own fundraising efforts. However, ultimately, a service provider's failure to meet the required standards could result in suspension or removal of registration.
The figures that Capability Scotland has suggested are: an additional £50,000 a year for payment of fees for registration and inspection after 2004; £12,000 a year for Scottish Criminal Record Office checks; £150,000 over three years for workplace assessors for Scottish vocational qualifications at levels 2 and 3; and additional training costs.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
Our main item of business is a debate on motion S1M-1523, in the name of Susan Deacon, on the general principles of the Regulation of Care (Scotland) Bill, w...
The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon):
Lab
I am conscious that, as we gather here this afternoon, certain events south of the border may have distracted some politicians and members of the public from...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
On consultation, the minister will be aware that concern has been expressed by, I think, everybody who has given evidence to the Health and Community Care Co...
Susan Deacon:
Lab
That is one of the issues that has arisen during early consideration of the bill. I will say more about it later in my speech, but I stress now that, at stag...
Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD):
LD
Will the minister give way?
Susan Deacon:
Lab
In the interest of time, I will continue, if I may.We already intend to regulate home care for children with disabilities. We now propose to extend regulatio...
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
Will the minister give way?
Susan Deacon:
Lab
I regret that, in the interest of time, I am unable to give way. The deputy minister will respond at the end of the debate and will pick up on points that ha...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I call Mary Scanlon to speak to and move the amendment.
Iain Smith (North-East Fife) (LD):
LD
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Will you clarify for me the reasoning behind accepting the amendment? According to rule 9.6.4 of the standing orders,...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I commend to Iain Smith and to all members the guidance that I issued on this subject only a week or two ago. The amendment falls completely within the terms...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
Although we have lodged amendment S1M-1523.1, the Scottish Conservatives welcome the broad principles of the Regulation of Care (Scotland) Bill. We particula...
Iain Smith:
LD
Will the member give way?
Mary Scanlon:
Con
I think that Mr Smith has said enough for today and I would rather keep my contribution positive.
Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD) rose—
LD
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab) rose—
Lab
Mary Scanlon:
Con
Alzheimer Scotland does not pay registration fees—Interruption.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Order. Three members are asking whether Mrs Scanlon will give way, but it is up to her to decide whether to do so.
Mary Scanlon:
Con
I will give way to Mrs Smith.
Mrs Smith:
LD
The SCRO check payments have been set aside. All parties in the chamber supported that and the Executive has listened.
Mary Scanlon:
Con
I am aware that, between the submission of evidence and today, there has been quite a bit of movement. That is why I say that the points that have been made ...
Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
On behalf of the Scottish National Party, I welcome the Regulation of Care (Scotland) Bill. I also welcome the fact that the headquarters of the new Scottish...
Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I begin by thanking the members of the Health and Community Care Committee for their work on the bill. I thank the members of all the other committees that h...
Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab):
Lab
The Regulation of Care (Scotland) Bill is part of our modernising programme for government—and rightly so.I say to the Tories that to suggest, even as a joke...
Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con):
Con
Will Trish Godman give way?
Trish Godman:
Lab
No. I have just started my speech.No one in any political party would disagree that we should safeguard vulnerable people. That means vulnerable people of al...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I want to raise several children's issues that have been identified by the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and by the cross-party group in the Scottis...
Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab):
Lab
I declare an interest in the matter, as a member of Unison and the mother of a student nursery nurse. I do not want anything to come back to haunt me later.T...
Mary Scanlon:
Con
Will the member give way?
Margaret Jamieson:
Lab
No, I am winding up.In particular, I draw members' attention to section 2(2) of the bill, in which reference is made to somebody "being of a young age". At n...