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Chamber

Plenary, 14 Feb 2001

14 Feb 2001 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Community Care
The contents of this excellent report show quite categorically that the well-being of our citizens and the health of our nation can come before party politics or in-built dogma. I commend the committee on the depth of the report, on the consensus achieved in drawing up the report and on making community care a priority for the Scottish Parliament. The public perception is that the report is purely about Sutherland, as has been stated, and it is perfectly easy to understand why.

Last year, at the height of the fuel crisis, I had the privilege of addressing more than 1,000 pensioners who had struggled to get to Edinburgh and had marched to their rallying point at the National Gallery. I said to them that the full implementation of Sutherland had less to do with health and care than it had to do with dignity, and that dignity was not an issue over which any pensioner should have to demonstrate. I congratulate the committee on its recommendation that the dignity of care of the elderly be restored. Sadly, I remain unconvinced of the Executive's resolve to implement that section of the committee's report. That feeling is only strengthened by the nature of the amendment that the Executive has chosen to lodge.

As others have said, however, the report is not purely about Sutherland. I have particular sympathy for the recommendation that the budgets for health and for social services should be amalgamated into a single budget. That single budget, if properly administered, would provide clear accountability, remove artificial distinctions between health and social work and ensure that the services work in a unified way to provide what is best for the patient at the time it is required. Ensuring such a unified service as opposed to the fragmented and disjointed one that exists all too often today would speed up both assessment and service provision as well as ending disputes over which agency pays for different aspects of the patient's treatment. In other words, that should provide a better service at a better value. It would also excise the practice of bedblocking, which has resulted in some 3,000 patients being kept in NHS beds when they should be in community care. That is double the number that there was three years ago and takes up almost 8 per cent of the average number of available staff beds in our hospitals. Bedblocking is ludicrously expensive and any initiative to end it should be grasped with both hands.

As a member of the Rural Development Committee, I am particularly pleased that the report pays considerable attention to the mentally ill, the disabled and those with learning difficulties because, in rural Scotland, those people face even greater problems than do their peers in urban areas. I am particularly concerned about such situations as one in Dumfries and Galloway that was recently brought to my attention. There, residential facilities are being closed and patients are being placed into often unsuitable housing in surrounding communities.

Although I understand the intentions behind such moves, I am not convinced that the policy has been properly thought through. Residential facilities have previously been a training ground for people's eventual return to the community, with appropriate support. The worst-affected patients remain in the residence, which becomes their home and, in a sense, their family. To close that home without putting the savings back into increased support services seems to be utter folly. We are surely past the days when financial savings come before patients' interests. If policy is properly thought out, the two can go together. All that is required is a little joined-up thinking. The committee's report encourages just that.

Still on Dumfries and Galloway, I cannot miss the opportunity of mentioning the consequences of that council's policy of externalising its care homes. Within two years, that policy led to a 68 per cent decrease in the number of patients referred to private nursing homes—from 186 in 1999 to only 60 last year. It has affected costs in the externalised homes, which enjoy a guaranteed 100 per cent occupancy rate and about £420 per patient per week, as opposed to approximately £260 per patient per week in a private home. In short, it has led to discrimination against private care homes. I believe that the minister needs to ask serious questions to get to the bottom of that inequality.

The Executive must not think that this debate on the Health and Community Care Committee's excellent report is the end. I hope that it is only the beginning, and that the Parliament will take every opportunity to ensure that the Executive puts into practice the committee's recommendations.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel): NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-1639, in the name of Margaret Smith, on behalf of the Health and Community Care Committee, on the committ...
Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD): LD
I am pleased—as convener of the Health and Community Care Committee—to lead on this debate on our report into community care. At various points during the pa...
The Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care (Malcolm Chisholm): Lab
Susan Deacon regrets that she cannot be present today; she is attending a meeting with UK ministers in London to discuss CJD-related issues. I am sure that a...
Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): SNP
The minister omitted to mention the part of the remit that says that part of the role of the care development group would be to provide a clear definition of...
Malcolm Chisholm: Lab
We need to translate the principle of Sutherland—which we accept—into an applicable, understandable and doable system of charging and non-charging. That rela...
Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): LD
On that point, I understand that the Executive objects to the motion that is before us and has lodged an amendment simply on the grounds that the committee s...
Malcolm Chisholm: Lab
Mike Rumbles should appreciate that the normal purpose of a motion on a committee report is that the Parliament notes it. This is the first time that the Exe...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): SNP
If we are to follow the logic of the minister's argument, will he tell us which aspects of the report's recommendations he does not agree with and does not i...
Malcolm Chisholm: Lab
That is very much in the detail. For example, I could point to recommendation 44, which concerns the involvement of social work in the training of GPs in the...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): SNP
I start by welcoming the Health and Community Care Committee's report. As someone who joined the committee at a very late stage of this piece of work, I pay ...
Malcolm Chisholm: Lab
I am genuinely mystified. I will try for the next hour to understand the basis of that argument. When I was asked whether I had any reservations about detail...
Nicola Sturgeon: SNP
Welcoming it might be better than noting it, but it is still not quite as good as acting on it. The minister said that when he talked about things in the rep...
Malcolm Chisholm rose— Lab
Nicola Sturgeon: SNP
It talks about the emergency statement on 25 January, which dealt solely with personal care. The amendment again raises the possibility that the Executive's ...
Malcolm Chisholm: Lab
Will the member give way?
Nicola Sturgeon: SNP
Not just now, as I am summing up.The motion gives the Parliament the opportunity yet again to vote for what we all say we believe in. If the Executive means ...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): Con
I thank Margaret Smith for proposing the Health and Community Care Committee report so competently. I also commend all the members and staff involved.I have ...
Malcolm Chisholm rose— Lab
Mary Scanlon: Con
I am just getting started.Apart from the ill-judged amendment, which only adds to the confusion over personal care for the elderly, I also find the Executive...
Malcolm Chisholm: Lab
Surely Mary Scanlon realises that the Executive's amendment has nothing to do with free personal care. As I said in my speech, all the amendment does is poin...
Mary Scanlon: Con
If that is the case, perhaps Malcolm Chisholm will clarify that point when he sums up.Why does the Executive have to refer to the care development group, whi...
Malcolm Chisholm rose— Lab
Mary Scanlon: Con
I want to move on.When Stewart Sutherland was asked by Malcolm Chisholm in the Health and Community Care Committee whether he envisaged any difficulties in i...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): Lab
The central issue of this debate is not just the Health and Community Care Committee's report, which is important and which has, along with the Sutherland re...
Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): Con
Will the member give way?
Des McNulty: Lab
No, I am short of time.Many of the people who bore the impact of those policies were elderly people—our pensioners, who were neglected and disadvantaged by w...
Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
This report is a good example of the important work that is being undertaken by the committees in the Parliament. In addition to taking written submissions a...
Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): Lab
Will the member give way?
Kay Ullrich: SNP
I do not have time.I will end with the issues that were paramount in all the submissions and, indeed, in all the visits. The first is the desire that the Sut...
Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con): Con
The contents of this excellent report show quite categorically that the well-being of our citizens and the health of our nation can come before party politic...