Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
13
Parties on record
2,355,091
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,355,091 contributions in session S6, 16 Apr 2026 – 16 May 2026. Latest 30 days: 148. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 14 May 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Chamber

Plenary, 14 Feb 2001

14 Feb 2001 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Community Care
I start by welcoming the Health and Community Care Committee's report. As someone who joined the committee at a very late stage of this piece of work, I pay tribute to all the members of the committee, including my colleagues Kay Ullrich and Duncan Hamilton, who are both so committed to the report that they have come out of health retirement to speak in today's debate. It is also appropriate to thank the committee's support staff—the clerks, the advisers and the research staff—without whom no work of this nature would be possible. It is important that the Parliament recognises their work.

The Health and Community Care Committee has placed a comprehensive report before the Parliament. It is a report that has been tremendously well received by a range of groups and individuals across Scotland, and it is generally recognised that the report's recommendations, if implemented, will greatly improve the delivery of community care in Scotland, guarantee the dignity of people in their later years and vastly improve the experience of service users and their carers.

It is also appropriate to acknowledge that the world has moved on quite significantly since the report was published. That is because the Executive has already moved to implement a great deal of what it contains. Statements on 5 October 2000 and 24 January 2001 and the Executive's response to the report of the joint future group have all acted to move those issues forward. The Executive deserves credit for the fact that so much of what we are discussing today is already work in progress.

I do not have time to talk in detail about all the report's recommendations. The convener of the Health and Community Care Committee has already touched on many of those recommendations, including those relating to resources and financial planning, work force planning and training for staff. I associate myself with Margaret Smith's comments on all those areas. They are all extremely important recommendations, which I hope will be fully implemented by the Executive.

In the relatively short time available, I would like to highlight and make special mention of just a couple of the report's recommendations. First, I want to comment on the recommendations that relate to joint working and joint resourcing. Although I joined the committee at a very late stage of the report, I have read carefully through the evidence presented to the committee. What strikes me about that evidence, among other things, is that time and again the committee heard how the fragmentation of service delivery and budgets at local level, the lack of co-ordination and the disputes between health boards and local authorities detracted from the quality of care provided to individuals and, too often, led to situations in which vulnerable individuals fell through gaps in the system. I know that the Executive has already committed itself to taking action on that area, but it is important to emphasise that action is urgently required. I was glad to hear Malcolm Chisholm assuring us again that the long-term care bill will be introduced as soon as possible.

The second area that I want to touch is the quality of care provided to older people. I make particular reference to the report's recommendation that calls for the commission for the regulation of care to be funded adequately to do its job properly. If there was ever any doubt—and I do not think that there was—about the importance of establishing a commission for the regulation of care to regulate and inspect the quality of care that people receive, it would surely have been dispelled by reports in last weekend's press that a fifth of elderly people in care are not being fed properly. That revelation certainly horrified me and I am sure that it horrified everyone else in the Parliament.

The funding of the proposed commission for the regulation of care is an issue that is exercising the Health and Community Care Committee in its consideration of the Regulation of Care (Scotland) Bill. The proposal to make the commission self-funding by 2004-05, which would inevitably lead to an increase in registration fees for service providers and users, is causing a great deal of worry. I hope that the Executive will give further consideration to that issue—the minister may want to touch on that in his summing-up.

I turn now to the Executive's amendment, which causes me some considerable concern. I understand that the Executive's rationale in lodging the amendment is that committee motions are normally take-note motions while Margaret Smith's motion on behalf of the Health and Community Care Committee goes further. Let me make two preliminary points on that argument. First, it should be for committees to determine the terms of their own motions. Secondly, it sets a bad precedent in the Parliament that committees should never call upon the Executive to act on the recommendations that are contained in committee reports.

However, what really concerns me is that the Executive amendment appears to go much further than simply seeking to turn the motion into a take-note motion. Instead, the amendment seems to take us back headlong into the debate on personal care that dominated all our thinking only two weeks ago. The minister talked about issues such as training. The fact is that the terms of his amendment single out the personal care recommendation. He cannot get away from that fact.

If the Executive is committed—as Henry McLeish says and as Malcolm Chisholm has repeated in the chamber today—to the provision of free personal care for all, why is there so much reluctance to allow the parliamentary majority in favour of that to be expressed in a vote on an unambiguous motion? Why not vote for a motion that calls on the Executive to do what the First Minister says it is committed to doing anyway: providing personal care free to all on the basis of assessed need?

The Executive must accept that in lodging the amendment, it raises the suspicion that there is a difference between the committee's recommendation—free personal care for all as proposed by Sutherland—and the Executive's position. If we add to that the fact that Susan Deacon has, yet again, passed up an opportunity to state for the record that she is committed in principle to the implementation in full of Sutherland, we can all be forgiven for having some doubts in our minds today.

The amendment leaves open the possibility that the Executive will bring forward proposals on free personal care—which, let us remember, is all that the statement on 25 January committed it to doing—but that those proposals will in some way fall short of the full implementation of Sutherland, for example, by changing the Sutherland definition of personal care. That may not be what the First Minister envisages but, reading the amendment, it seems to be the intention of Susan Deacon and Malcolm Chisholm to leave themselves a get-out in respect of fully implementing the Sutherland report.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel): NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-1639, in the name of Margaret Smith, on behalf of the Health and Community Care Committee, on the committ...
Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD): LD
I am pleased—as convener of the Health and Community Care Committee—to lead on this debate on our report into community care. At various points during the pa...
The Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care (Malcolm Chisholm): Lab
Susan Deacon regrets that she cannot be present today; she is attending a meeting with UK ministers in London to discuss CJD-related issues. I am sure that a...
Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): SNP
The minister omitted to mention the part of the remit that says that part of the role of the care development group would be to provide a clear definition of...
Malcolm Chisholm: Lab
We need to translate the principle of Sutherland—which we accept—into an applicable, understandable and doable system of charging and non-charging. That rela...
Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): LD
On that point, I understand that the Executive objects to the motion that is before us and has lodged an amendment simply on the grounds that the committee s...
Malcolm Chisholm: Lab
Mike Rumbles should appreciate that the normal purpose of a motion on a committee report is that the Parliament notes it. This is the first time that the Exe...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): SNP
If we are to follow the logic of the minister's argument, will he tell us which aspects of the report's recommendations he does not agree with and does not i...
Malcolm Chisholm: Lab
That is very much in the detail. For example, I could point to recommendation 44, which concerns the involvement of social work in the training of GPs in the...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): SNP
I start by welcoming the Health and Community Care Committee's report. As someone who joined the committee at a very late stage of this piece of work, I pay ...
Malcolm Chisholm: Lab
I am genuinely mystified. I will try for the next hour to understand the basis of that argument. When I was asked whether I had any reservations about detail...
Nicola Sturgeon: SNP
Welcoming it might be better than noting it, but it is still not quite as good as acting on it. The minister said that when he talked about things in the rep...
Malcolm Chisholm rose— Lab
Nicola Sturgeon: SNP
It talks about the emergency statement on 25 January, which dealt solely with personal care. The amendment again raises the possibility that the Executive's ...
Malcolm Chisholm: Lab
Will the member give way?
Nicola Sturgeon: SNP
Not just now, as I am summing up.The motion gives the Parliament the opportunity yet again to vote for what we all say we believe in. If the Executive means ...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): Con
I thank Margaret Smith for proposing the Health and Community Care Committee report so competently. I also commend all the members and staff involved.I have ...
Malcolm Chisholm rose— Lab
Mary Scanlon: Con
I am just getting started.Apart from the ill-judged amendment, which only adds to the confusion over personal care for the elderly, I also find the Executive...
Malcolm Chisholm: Lab
Surely Mary Scanlon realises that the Executive's amendment has nothing to do with free personal care. As I said in my speech, all the amendment does is poin...
Mary Scanlon: Con
If that is the case, perhaps Malcolm Chisholm will clarify that point when he sums up.Why does the Executive have to refer to the care development group, whi...
Malcolm Chisholm rose— Lab
Mary Scanlon: Con
I want to move on.When Stewart Sutherland was asked by Malcolm Chisholm in the Health and Community Care Committee whether he envisaged any difficulties in i...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): Lab
The central issue of this debate is not just the Health and Community Care Committee's report, which is important and which has, along with the Sutherland re...
Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): Con
Will the member give way?
Des McNulty: Lab
No, I am short of time.Many of the people who bore the impact of those policies were elderly people—our pensioners, who were neglected and disadvantaged by w...
Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
This report is a good example of the important work that is being undertaken by the committees in the Parliament. In addition to taking written submissions a...
Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): Lab
Will the member give way?
Kay Ullrich: SNP
I do not have time.I will end with the issues that were paramount in all the submissions and, indeed, in all the visits. The first is the desire that the Sut...
Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con): Con
The contents of this excellent report show quite categorically that the well-being of our citizens and the health of our nation can come before party politic...