Chamber
Plenary, 30 Nov 2000
30 Nov 2000 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
District Courts
Thank you, Presiding Officer.
This is the 21st century and Scotland has its own Parliament with clear responsibility for administering and managing its own justice affairs, but where are we? Perhaps we are where we would expect to be: we have a Liberal-Labour governing body in Edinburgh and a Labour Government at Westminster whose commitment and track record on law and order issues can be described only as abysmal. Events over the past two or three years bear true witness to the charge of their being the criminal's friend, which has been reborn.
Today we face an unprecedented situation. Convicted criminals escape sentence, walking free from the court in Glasgow, escaping justice, creating anger and resentment among their victims and disillusioning those who had faith in our once-renowned justice system.
Those who are charged with relatively serious offences arrive at court, as summoned, find the doors locked and, at that point, are considered to have paid their debt to society. Many have gained from their alleged misdeeds, but many have lost. The losers are the victims who have been robbed, burgled, assaulted and intimidated and who have lost their claims for criminal injury compensation. Minister, what action will the Executive take to compensate those who have been the victims of crime when their alleged attackers or those who have breached their security have not been challenged in the courts? I have no great expectation of a positive response, given the total offloading of responsibility that we have witnessed to date. For many victims, it may be more important that the disruption and their pain and anxiety have been disregarded.
The losers are everyone in society who believes that the justice system exists to protect them, to maintain acceptable standards and to secure the interests of those who respect their neighbours and want to live in peace in their communities.
The losers are the police. Strathclyde police has built up successes over recent years, by securing a reduction in crime and an increase in detection rates, despite a swingeing decrease in numbers since Labour came to power. Just a few months ago, there were 350 fewer officers.
The level of morale among those who work hard to maintain public control and interest in, at times, extremely unpleasant and dangerous circumstances must be blown apart by the current situation in Glasgow. It must make many officers wonder why they bother, given the political ineptitude that has allowed convicted and alleged criminals, whom the police have worked so hard to bring to justice, to be put back on the streets. The present situation further overstretches the police, resulting in a poorer service, increased anxiety for the public and comfort for the criminal.
Labour, which is in control of Glasgow City Council, and the Lib-Lab Executive in Edinburgh have allowed hundreds—no, I am wrong, thousands—of villains to walk away from their misdeeds. At my last count, more than 4,500 cases have been abandoned to date.
This is the 21st century and Scotland has its own Parliament with clear responsibility for administering and managing its own justice affairs, but where are we? Perhaps we are where we would expect to be: we have a Liberal-Labour governing body in Edinburgh and a Labour Government at Westminster whose commitment and track record on law and order issues can be described only as abysmal. Events over the past two or three years bear true witness to the charge of their being the criminal's friend, which has been reborn.
Today we face an unprecedented situation. Convicted criminals escape sentence, walking free from the court in Glasgow, escaping justice, creating anger and resentment among their victims and disillusioning those who had faith in our once-renowned justice system.
Those who are charged with relatively serious offences arrive at court, as summoned, find the doors locked and, at that point, are considered to have paid their debt to society. Many have gained from their alleged misdeeds, but many have lost. The losers are the victims who have been robbed, burgled, assaulted and intimidated and who have lost their claims for criminal injury compensation. Minister, what action will the Executive take to compensate those who have been the victims of crime when their alleged attackers or those who have breached their security have not been challenged in the courts? I have no great expectation of a positive response, given the total offloading of responsibility that we have witnessed to date. For many victims, it may be more important that the disruption and their pain and anxiety have been disregarded.
The losers are everyone in society who believes that the justice system exists to protect them, to maintain acceptable standards and to secure the interests of those who respect their neighbours and want to live in peace in their communities.
The losers are the police. Strathclyde police has built up successes over recent years, by securing a reduction in crime and an increase in detection rates, despite a swingeing decrease in numbers since Labour came to power. Just a few months ago, there were 350 fewer officers.
The level of morale among those who work hard to maintain public control and interest in, at times, extremely unpleasant and dangerous circumstances must be blown apart by the current situation in Glasgow. It must make many officers wonder why they bother, given the political ineptitude that has allowed convicted and alleged criminals, whom the police have worked so hard to bring to justice, to be put back on the streets. The present situation further overstretches the police, resulting in a poorer service, increased anxiety for the public and comfort for the criminal.
Labour, which is in control of Glasgow City Council, and the Lib-Lab Executive in Edinburgh have allowed hundreds—no, I am wrong, thousands—of villains to walk away from their misdeeds. At my last count, more than 4,500 cases have been abandoned to date.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
Our first item of business is a Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party debate on motion S1M-1404, in the name of Phil Gallie, on district courts, and two a...
Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer.This is the 21st century and Scotland has its own Parliament with clear responsibility for administering and managing its own ju...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
I have a quick question for you. You mention thousands of villains, but how do we know that they are villains if they have not been tried in court?
Phil Gallie:
Con
Many of them have been tried and convicted, but because the court doors are shut when they come along to face up to their convictions, they are turned away. ...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD):
LD
My point about the ECHR has been made many times before. I suppose Mr Gallie is aware that the United Kingdom has been signed up to the ECHR for many years. ...
Phil Gallie:
Con
I recognise that my party was committed to the principles of the ECHR, but it was careful not to incorporate the convention into our law. The Conservative Go...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP) rose—
SNP
Phil Gallie:
Con
We have enough reports in the Scottish Parliament to paper the entire road system in Scotland. We need action, not discussion. I would have expected any part...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Phil Gallie:
Con
Perhaps Christine Grahame will give us some ideas.
Christine Grahame:
SNP
You know very well, Phil, that a report is in hand, as we were told about the on-going review of district courts at the meeting of the Justice and Home Affai...
Phil Gallie:
Con
We do not need reports at the present time. We are in a desperate situation; something has got to be done. You may be prepared to wait till the spring, but I...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
Will you—
Phil Gallie:
Con
No. I am running out of time and cannot take another intervention.The national Government was quick to respond to the petrol fiasco. It was able to identify ...
Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab):
Lab
Will Mr Gallie give way?
Phil Gallie:
Con
I do not think that the Presiding Officer will allow me to give way, as I have already exceeded the time allowed for my speech.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
That is right, Mr Gallie.
Phil Gallie:
Con
I apologise for that, Presiding Officer.I sympathise with Iain Gray, who has inherited this situation with his new ministerial post. However, his boss, Jim W...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Before I call the minister to speak, I want to remind members of something. I did not want to interrupt you, Mr Gallie, but there were rather too many yous r...
The Deputy Minister for Justice (Iain Gray):
Lab
I welcome the chance to clear up some of the misleading comments about the situation in Glasgow district court that have been flying around in the press and,...
Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Does the minister recognise that negotiations have been concluded in Aberdeen on behalf of all staff and that the local authority has reached a separate sett...
Iain Gray:
Lab
I recognise that that has happened, but I would not care to comment on it for the reason that I have just given. I note that negotiations continued yesterday...
Phil Gallie:
Con
If someone is taken in by the police on a Friday or Saturday night after creating a breach that involves violence and is due to appear in court on the follow...
Iain Gray:
Lab
If the case is a common law case, it is not time barred and will not fall automatically because the court is closed on the day that has been arranged. I woul...
Michael Matheson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I am sure that all members present recognise that district courts perform an important function in our justice system. The present situation at Glasgow distr...
Iain Gray:
Lab
Does Mr Matheson accept that he has just illustrated perfectly the point that I made: that this is a shared responsibility?
Michael Matheson:
SNP
I accept that it is a shared responsibility. Every one of the bodies to which I referred has a role in the running of the district courts. However, ultimate ...
Phil Gallie:
Con
Will the member give way?
Michael Matheson:
SNP
My time is limited, but I will take a quick intervention from Phil Gallie.
Phil Gallie:
Con
Does the member agree that it is right that the police should not take industrial action? Does he recognise that court staff are also important to the justic...