Chamber
Plenary, 25 Oct 2000
25 Oct 2000 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Primary Dental Care
I am pleased that the workings of the Scottish Parliament have allowed a small party to contribute to the debate through an amendment.
I have no problem with the Executive's motion, apart from its complete endorsement of the action plan for dental services and the increase in fluoridation.
I support the Scottish National Party's amendment, which proposes the abolition of charges for dental check-ups, and I completely support Nicola Sturgeon's comments on the provision of sugary foods and drinks in schools.
Members will forgive me if I concentrate on speaking to my own amendment. Much of the Executive's document, "An Action Plan for Dental Services in Scotland", is commendable, but in paragraph 22, under the heading "Contributing to Public Health", it says:
"Fluoridation of the water supply, where practicable, offers the most effective means of improving dental health".
In the "Proposed actions" section that follows, the plan says:
"proposals will be developed with Health Boards for consultation on fluoridation of the water supply."
My amendment seeks to alter the Parliament's endorsement of the action plan by suggesting that the commitment to the fluoridation of Scotland's water supplies be withdrawn.
There has been a change since the publication of the action plan in August 2000: three weeks ago, the long-awaited report "A Systematic Review of Public Water Fluoridation" was published by a Government commission. It was carried out by the NHS Centre for Reviews and Dissemination at the University of York.
Given the controversy over fluoridation and the constant debate about its risks, that review was to be something of a final say on fluoridation, although I very much doubt that it will be. It states:
"This review presents a summary of the best available and most reliable evidence on the safety and efficacy of water fluoridation."
In answer to a recent oral question, the Minister for Health and Community Care told the chamber:
"I have examined the evidence closely and believe that there is very strong evidence to suggest that fluoridation can have a dramatic impact on the health of our children's teeth."—[Official Report, 7 September 2000; Vol 8, c 138.]
What did the review find? Is fluoridation effective in reducing dental caries? To quote the review directly:
"Given the level of interest surrounding the issue of public water fluoridation, it is surprising to find that little high quality research has been undertaken."
In other words, there is little evidence of any quality to answer the question whether fluoridation is as effective as is claimed in reducing dental caries.
The reviewers went on to say:
"Any future research into the safety and efficacy of water fluoridation should be carried out with appropriate methodology to improve the quality of the existing evidence base."
That clearly suggests that the minister and her advisers based their intention to fluoridate the water supply on scientific evidence of poor quality. I am not saying that that was deliberate; it is just that that has now been established. In other words, the idea that fluoridation has been proved to be effective beyond all reasonable doubt is false.
What does the little high-quality research on fluoridation, which we can trust, show? That fluoridation might help to prevent dental caries. Significantly, however, it also shows that the level of improvement is far lower than the figures that the advocates of fluoridation have been bandying about. Far from fluoridation being a miracle cure, the evidence shows that in only about 15 per cent of cases is it likely to bring about an improvement in dental health and the prevention of caries. A reasonable extrapolation from the figures is that if we add fluoride to the entire Scottish water supply, we will prevent one filling in six.
I draw members' attention to the effectiveness of other methods of reducing the incidence of dental caries. They have been carefully explained, I am happy to note, by the Deputy Minister for Community Care, with a list of thoroughly good ideas. Recent research from Tayside and Glasgow shows the effectiveness of school-based toothbrushing schemes, under which children are provided with their own tray and toothbrush and toothpaste at school and are supervised during the school day during their brushing.
The money that the Executive proposes or, perhaps, might spend, on fluoridation plant and chemicals would go a long way to cover the extension of such a scheme to all children up to the age of 11 years.
What about the possible harmful effects of fluoridation? On that, the reviewers said:
"The research evidence is of insufficient quality to allow confident statements about other potential harms or whether there is an impact on social inequalities."
That means not that there are no other harmful effects to health, but that no quality research on that has been done. It is perhaps of insufficient quality, but a lot of evidence suggests harmful health effects. We cannot just ignore it. If there is a suggestion that some of the population's health will suffer, we have to be sure and we must take a precautionary approach.
I have no problem with the Executive's motion, apart from its complete endorsement of the action plan for dental services and the increase in fluoridation.
I support the Scottish National Party's amendment, which proposes the abolition of charges for dental check-ups, and I completely support Nicola Sturgeon's comments on the provision of sugary foods and drinks in schools.
Members will forgive me if I concentrate on speaking to my own amendment. Much of the Executive's document, "An Action Plan for Dental Services in Scotland", is commendable, but in paragraph 22, under the heading "Contributing to Public Health", it says:
"Fluoridation of the water supply, where practicable, offers the most effective means of improving dental health".
In the "Proposed actions" section that follows, the plan says:
"proposals will be developed with Health Boards for consultation on fluoridation of the water supply."
My amendment seeks to alter the Parliament's endorsement of the action plan by suggesting that the commitment to the fluoridation of Scotland's water supplies be withdrawn.
There has been a change since the publication of the action plan in August 2000: three weeks ago, the long-awaited report "A Systematic Review of Public Water Fluoridation" was published by a Government commission. It was carried out by the NHS Centre for Reviews and Dissemination at the University of York.
Given the controversy over fluoridation and the constant debate about its risks, that review was to be something of a final say on fluoridation, although I very much doubt that it will be. It states:
"This review presents a summary of the best available and most reliable evidence on the safety and efficacy of water fluoridation."
In answer to a recent oral question, the Minister for Health and Community Care told the chamber:
"I have examined the evidence closely and believe that there is very strong evidence to suggest that fluoridation can have a dramatic impact on the health of our children's teeth."—[Official Report, 7 September 2000; Vol 8, c 138.]
What did the review find? Is fluoridation effective in reducing dental caries? To quote the review directly:
"Given the level of interest surrounding the issue of public water fluoridation, it is surprising to find that little high quality research has been undertaken."
In other words, there is little evidence of any quality to answer the question whether fluoridation is as effective as is claimed in reducing dental caries.
The reviewers went on to say:
"Any future research into the safety and efficacy of water fluoridation should be carried out with appropriate methodology to improve the quality of the existing evidence base."
That clearly suggests that the minister and her advisers based their intention to fluoridate the water supply on scientific evidence of poor quality. I am not saying that that was deliberate; it is just that that has now been established. In other words, the idea that fluoridation has been proved to be effective beyond all reasonable doubt is false.
What does the little high-quality research on fluoridation, which we can trust, show? That fluoridation might help to prevent dental caries. Significantly, however, it also shows that the level of improvement is far lower than the figures that the advocates of fluoridation have been bandying about. Far from fluoridation being a miracle cure, the evidence shows that in only about 15 per cent of cases is it likely to bring about an improvement in dental health and the prevention of caries. A reasonable extrapolation from the figures is that if we add fluoride to the entire Scottish water supply, we will prevent one filling in six.
I draw members' attention to the effectiveness of other methods of reducing the incidence of dental caries. They have been carefully explained, I am happy to note, by the Deputy Minister for Community Care, with a list of thoroughly good ideas. Recent research from Tayside and Glasgow shows the effectiveness of school-based toothbrushing schemes, under which children are provided with their own tray and toothbrush and toothpaste at school and are supervised during the school day during their brushing.
The money that the Executive proposes or, perhaps, might spend, on fluoridation plant and chemicals would go a long way to cover the extension of such a scheme to all children up to the age of 11 years.
What about the possible harmful effects of fluoridation? On that, the reviewers said:
"The research evidence is of insufficient quality to allow confident statements about other potential harms or whether there is an impact on social inequalities."
That means not that there are no other harmful effects to health, but that no quality research on that has been done. It is perhaps of insufficient quality, but a lot of evidence suggests harmful health effects. We cannot just ignore it. If there is a suggestion that some of the population's health will suffer, we have to be sure and we must take a precautionary approach.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
The main business of the afternoon is the debate on motion S1M-1271, in the name of Susan Deacon, on primary dental care services. I have selected two amendm...
The Deputy Minister for Community Care (Iain Gray):
Lab
In the debate on public health on 5 October, Susan Deacon made it clear that oral and dental health are priorities for the Executive. In that debate, several...
Mrs Margaret Ewing (Moray) (SNP):
SNP
Is it not also the case that the York study indicated that further research had to be done on fluoridation?
Iain Gray:
Lab
That is the case, and the study commented on the methodologies of the studies that it considered. However, if Mrs Ewing will bear with me, I will say somethi...
Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
Is the minister aware of the proposal, made by dentists in Ayrshire, to establish an emergency call-out system in line with the extremely successful out-of-h...
Iain Gray:
Lab
We are aware of the initiative and we will pursue an interest in that. The action plan that I referred to includes, in the long term, an examination of how w...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):
Lab
Where does the funding for those dentists come from? Do health boards have to find the funding?
Iain Gray:
Lab
The funding comes through the health board and the approval to appoint a salaried dentist is given by Scottish ministers, but of course health boards have fu...
Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
Can I take it that the minister does not approve of the installation of confectionery and soft-drink vending machines in school halls, which seems to oppose ...
Iain Gray:
Lab
I want to move on to talk about effects on health, on which there has been some debate. I think that Dorothy-Grace Elder is thinking in particular about the ...
Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
So far, the minister has not mentioned that one of the main ways to improve dental health would be to increase the number of dental graduates. He referred to...
Iain Gray:
Lab
If Mr Rumbles will bear with me, the next section of my speech will address some of the issues that he raises.We need our general dental practitioners to pla...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome today's debate and the fact that the improvement of dental and oral health is being prioritised by the Scottish Executive. As the minister has outl...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I admit that it is a long time since I was at school, but when I was there I ran the tuck shop, which sold Mars bars—
Mr Rumbles:
LD
We can see that.
Mr Monteith:
Con
We sold Mars bars, Polos and crisps, and the financial benefits went to buy snooker tables, books and so on for pupils. Does Nicola Sturgeon advocate that th...
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
I advocate implementation of a national strategy—as there is—to encourage good dental health among young people and to encourage them to consume low-sugar pr...
Iain Gray:
Lab
Is the member aware that dental fees are set by a body that is independent of the Government and that it recommends each year the percentage increase in fees?
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
I am fully aware of that fact, but if MSPs are to have a reasoned and rational debate on the future of dental services in Scotland, we cannot ignore the real...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
Before I call Robin Harper, I advise members of a purely editorial change in the last line of his amendment—S1M-1271.2. The phrase "NHS Centre for Research a...
Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):
Green
I am pleased that the workings of the Scottish Parliament have allowed a small party to contribute to the debate through an amendment.I have no problem with ...
Phil Gallie:
Con
I understand that fluoride exists naturally in some water supplies. If Mr Harper is really concerned about the harmful effects, does he believe that those su...
Robin Harper:
Green
Mr Gallie is talking about one small area of Scotland, around Burghead. It would be nice to have good-quality research on that area. I have tried to find som...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I, too, welcome the opportunity to debate the important subject of primary dental care services, including the plans for early registration schemes, fissure ...
Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD):
LD
No one would disagree that oral health is important, that we do not want our children to have fillings or extractions, and that all of us should retain a hea...
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
Will the Liberal Democrats vote in line with last year's manifesto commitment?
Nora Radcliffe:
LD
I will deal with that when I come to it. I will not duck the question.Nicola Sturgeon has made me lose my place.Three dental schools were closed. It is right...
Mary Scanlon:
Con
The recommended number of dental graduates each year in Scotland is 120; Glasgow produces 70 graduates and Dundee produces 50. Dundee is allowed to fund 59 g...
Nora Radcliffe:
LD
Whether or not we are training enough dentists, we do not seem to have enough on the ground. That points up the fact that we need more. We also need more anc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
We will have speakers from the floor until 4.29 pm. I suspect that more members want to speak than time will allow, but if members keep speeches to four minu...