Chamber
Plenary, 11 May 2000
11 May 2000 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Telecommunications
Mr Tosh raises a very interesting point. If regulations are introduced, they should also apply to the use of car radios, as operating a car radio has been identified as one of the main reasons why drivers take their eyes off the road. Nevertheless, Mr Tosh's point is important and worth while.
It is important to get the balance right between the need for technology and the rights of local people. It is clear that the powers that have existed have been quite draconian. I have always thought that people consented to such powers because they did not notice the extent of the powers of compulsory purchase and so on.
Part of the problem is caused by the history of many of the powers, which were held by the General Post Office and the Crown—of course, the Crown can do anything. The powers that legislation in the 1960s gave the GPO to erect telegraph poles in one's garden were significant—there was nothing one could do about it. That is the backdrop to what is happening now.
It is clear that that is not acceptable any more. Local authorities do not find it acceptable and, in many ways, nor do the companies. There is great confusion about the meaning of the legislation. I think that confusion has crept into the debate—I do not want to be critical of anyone—as members have talked mostly about mobile phone masts. However, a significant amount of fixed telephony is provided through masts and microwave dishes. If we do not ensure that that is covered, we will not achieve a great deal. In fact, I suspect that if planning is made more difficult, companies may return to using the existing framework for fixed telephony. All the most controversial issues involving schools that I have encountered have concerned existing poles, the definition of poles and what can be put at the top of poles.
Local authorities need help on this issue. They need clear support from the Scottish Executive. Despite what we have said, masts do not go up every five minutes—it is quite a rare occurrence. Planning authorities, particularly in rural areas, do not have the expertise to deal with these matters; they need clear and consistent support from the centre to deal with them when they arise.
I thank the Presiding Officer for the additional time that I have been allowed. This has been a worthwhile debate and the committee's report has much to commend it.
It is important to get the balance right between the need for technology and the rights of local people. It is clear that the powers that have existed have been quite draconian. I have always thought that people consented to such powers because they did not notice the extent of the powers of compulsory purchase and so on.
Part of the problem is caused by the history of many of the powers, which were held by the General Post Office and the Crown—of course, the Crown can do anything. The powers that legislation in the 1960s gave the GPO to erect telegraph poles in one's garden were significant—there was nothing one could do about it. That is the backdrop to what is happening now.
It is clear that that is not acceptable any more. Local authorities do not find it acceptable and, in many ways, nor do the companies. There is great confusion about the meaning of the legislation. I think that confusion has crept into the debate—I do not want to be critical of anyone—as members have talked mostly about mobile phone masts. However, a significant amount of fixed telephony is provided through masts and microwave dishes. If we do not ensure that that is covered, we will not achieve a great deal. In fact, I suspect that if planning is made more difficult, companies may return to using the existing framework for fixed telephony. All the most controversial issues involving schools that I have encountered have concerned existing poles, the definition of poles and what can be put at the top of poles.
Local authorities need help on this issue. They need clear support from the Scottish Executive. Despite what we have said, masts do not go up every five minutes—it is quite a rare occurrence. Planning authorities, particularly in rural areas, do not have the expertise to deal with these matters; they need clear and consistent support from the centre to deal with them when they arise.
I thank the Presiding Officer for the additional time that I have been allowed. This has been a worthwhile debate and the committee's report has much to commend it.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-803, in the name of Mr Andy Kerr, on behalf of the Transport and the Environment Committee, on that commi...
Mr Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab):
Lab
I am delighted to open this debate on behalf of the Transport and the Environment Committee. I thank my colleagues for their hard work in producing a thought...
Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I am pleased to speak in this debate. The first report of the Transport and the Environment Committee is the result of a great deal of investigation. Committ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Patricia Ferguson):
Lab
I call Nick Johnston to open for the Conservatives. You have eight minutes, Mr Johnston.
Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I will try to keep to my time.I stand here this morning as a warning to every young researcher or putative candidate to Parliament—never lodge a members' bus...
Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD):
LD
I am grateful to Nick Johnston for clarifying the Conservative front-bench situation. For a terrible moment, those of us who enjoy transport and the environm...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
We move to the open part of the debate. Members will have four minutes.
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):
Lab
I am particularly pleased to take part in this debate, as I have been rather vocal on the subject of telecommunications developments since about June last ye...
Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
I would like to begin by congratulating the Transport and the Environment Committee on its work and on its report. I think that Andy Kerr did a good job of p...
Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome constituents who have travelled to the Parliament from Strathblane and who have been going through an ordeal with a mast in their area. I thank the...
Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD):
LD
I, too, welcome this report, with the important development that it proposes, and the Stewart report that was published today. There will be widespread agree...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
As a member of the Transport and the Environment Committee, I thank my fellow committee members and the staff of the committee for the tremendous amount of w...
Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab):
Lab
I wonder if Des McNulty would agree that particular attention should be paid to masts near schools. Bruce Crawford shares my concern about the situation in K...
Des McNulty:
Lab
I am sympathetic to that view and that some of the income coming to local authorities in site rental should be used in that way.Monitoring health risks is a ...
Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
I associate myself with all the positive remarks that have been made about the work of the staff on the Transport and the Environment Committee, and I congra...
Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the Stewart committee's report, which was published today, and I am pleased to see that it vindicates many of the recommendations in the Transport ...
Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):
Green
First, I apologise to the chamber because I must leave this debate early. I have a ceremony to attend at the University of Edinburgh in which I am playing a ...
Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab):
Lab
I am pleased to be taking part in this debate. I congratulate the Transport and the Environment Committee on a thorough and well-considered report. Telecom m...
Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
Carlops, in my constituency, is one of the most famous of the mobile phone mast episodes, but I do not wish to go into the details of that today as we are in...
Dr Simpson:
Lab
I appreciate what the member is going through. Perhaps I can offer some help. A mast was erected in my constituency. Fortunately, it was close to a B-listed ...
Ian Jenkins:
LD
I really do not want to go into the details because there are aspects of our discussions that might involve trees, or whatever.It seems totally unacceptable ...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I join other members in thanking sincerely the support team led by Lynn Tullis and all those who briefed us in the Transport and the Environment Committee an...
Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab):
Lab
As a member of the Transport and the Environment Committee, I would like to echo the gratitude of my colleagues to the staff who have helped us through the i...
David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
I do not hold myself out to have the same expertise in these matters as my colleague Nick Johnston, but I was previously employed by British Telecommunicatio...
Mr Tosh:
Con
In the light of what Mr Mundell has just said, will he comment on the recommendation in the Stewart report that no one should be encouraged to use mobile tel...
David Mundell:
Con
Mr Tosh raises a very interesting point. If regulations are introduced, they should also apply to the use of car radios, as operating a car radio has been id...
Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
As others such as Des McNulty have done, I put on record my thanks to the members of staff of the Transport and the Environment Committee. In many instances,...
Nick Johnston:
Con
Would Mr MacAskill be gracious enough—in the spirit of consensus that has evolved in the debate—to acknowledge that we are learning from experience, whereas ...
Mr MacAskill:
SNP
I should be happy to acknowledge that the Conservatives are learning from the past, although I would not go beyond that.The most important issue is to decide...
The Minister for Transport and the Environment (Sarah Boyack):
Lab
I listened with interest to the many excellent contributions throughout the debate. The debate has been marked by the consistently high quality of those cont...