Chamber
Plenary, 24 Feb 2000
24 Feb 2000 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Code of Conduct
Although this might not be the most riveting subject for debate—by the number of members of the press who have been present throughout, it is clear that they do not see it that way—I know that members believe the code of conduct to be necessary and of great importance. It is important because we must have transparency and accountability in the Scottish Parliament. The people of Scotland expect and deserve no less.
Furthermore, in the light of recent events in the chamber, it is important that MSPs are seen to treat each other with the utmost respect at all times. If that does not happen, how can we expect the people of Scotland to respect the Scottish Parliament and its members?
My experience as a councillor brought home to me the importance of having clear and concise guidelines—I am sure that other former councillors will raise that point. In local government, it was often difficult to ascertain what constituted an interest or a gift. Often there was a lack of clarity in guidelines on declaring such matters. Indeed, for many years, the Scottish National party and other political parties made representations to the Nolan committee about those matters and called for clear guidelines to be put in place.
I welcome the guidelines, and in particular those concerning gifts, interests and sponsorships. Compared with council guidelines, they are clear and concise.
I will offer the chamber a brief example of the problems that I encountered as a local councillor. I remember that my daughter was once given a box of creme eggs—I will not say who made the creme eggs—which was certainly not worth more than £250, and my spouse was given flowers and so on. Although that may seem trivial to members now, such gifts caused much consternation to me and to council staff. We had to decide whether I had to register the fact that I had received a creme egg, a box of chocolates or whatever. I know that other councillors experienced such difficulties, so I welcome the requirement to declare gifts that are worth more than £250. That clarifies the matter for MSPs and staff; perhaps councils could adopt that requirement, which would remove the absurdity of having to declare such things as flowers and creme eggs.
This is a new era for government in Scotland. We must ensure that members as well as the Parliament are protected against allegations of impropriety. I welcome the measures, which will set the Parliament off on the right footing and be a positive step toward openness and transparent government.
Furthermore, in the light of recent events in the chamber, it is important that MSPs are seen to treat each other with the utmost respect at all times. If that does not happen, how can we expect the people of Scotland to respect the Scottish Parliament and its members?
My experience as a councillor brought home to me the importance of having clear and concise guidelines—I am sure that other former councillors will raise that point. In local government, it was often difficult to ascertain what constituted an interest or a gift. Often there was a lack of clarity in guidelines on declaring such matters. Indeed, for many years, the Scottish National party and other political parties made representations to the Nolan committee about those matters and called for clear guidelines to be put in place.
I welcome the guidelines, and in particular those concerning gifts, interests and sponsorships. Compared with council guidelines, they are clear and concise.
I will offer the chamber a brief example of the problems that I encountered as a local councillor. I remember that my daughter was once given a box of creme eggs—I will not say who made the creme eggs—which was certainly not worth more than £250, and my spouse was given flowers and so on. Although that may seem trivial to members now, such gifts caused much consternation to me and to council staff. We had to decide whether I had to register the fact that I had received a creme egg, a box of chocolates or whatever. I know that other councillors experienced such difficulties, so I welcome the requirement to declare gifts that are worth more than £250. That clarifies the matter for MSPs and staff; perhaps councils could adopt that requirement, which would remove the absurdity of having to declare such things as flowers and creme eggs.
This is a new era for government in Scotland. We must ensure that members as well as the Parliament are protected against allegations of impropriety. I welcome the measures, which will set the Parliament off on the right footing and be a positive step toward openness and transparent government.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
I remind members who may not have been present this morning that decision time will be at 5.30 pm today, to allow a full debate on the code of conduct. I cal...
Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
It is with great pleasure that I am able, on behalf of my colleagues on the Standards Committee, to present our first report of 2000, which proposes a draft ...
Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West):
*
When I made the affirmation on taking my seat in this Parliament, I made it clear that I believe in the sovereignty of the people of Scotland rather than the...
The Minister for Parliament (Mr Tom McCabe):
Lab
On behalf of the Executive, I will begin by expressing our thanks—and, I hope, those of the entire chamber—to the Standards Committee for its work in an area...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):
Con
I rise to support Mr Mike Rumbles and my parliamentary colleagues on the Standards Committee who have agreed the code of conduct for members of the Scottish ...
Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
I thank Tom McCabe for his comments about the Standards Committee and the work in which we have been engaged since we were all elected. I would particularly ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
Nine members have indicated a wish to speak before Des McNulty winds up the debate. It should be possible to include everybody if speeches are kept to about ...
Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the code of conduct and I applaud the work of the Standards Committee. Lord James Douglas-Hamilton said that he hoped that the code would keep all ...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I want to direct my remarks to section 8.3 of the code of conduct, on cross-party group rules. I endeavoured to intimate to Mike Rumbles and Des McNulty the ...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
On a point of order. I am concerned at the line and level of detail that Christine Grahame is pursuing. I do not think that it is appropriate in this context.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I share your concern, Mr McNulty.
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I accept that and will move on.A motion was put on the basis that the rules had not been ratified by the Parliament and that I was not debarred from moving t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Ms Grahame, I must ask you to focus on the work of the Standards Committee.
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I am focusing on it.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Do so more precisely, please.
Christine Grahame:
SNP
My point is that the group would have been inhibited in discussing certain matters if the public had been there—not members of the general public, but the tw...
Des McNulty:
Lab
On a point of order. There is a difficulty, as Christine Grahame has not formally lodged amendments to the motion.
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I accept that.
Des McNulty:
Lab
If Christine Grahame wants to propose amendments for the Standards Committee to consider at a subsequent stage, there is a mechanism to allow her to do that....
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I think that that would be fair. Will Ms Grahame please draw her remarks to a close?
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I shall draw my remarks to a close.
Mr Rumbles:
LD
It is important that we clarify the situation, so that members are absolutely clear about the rules for cross-party groups.The Parliament has already adopted...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I agree with that comment. I ask Christine Grahame to cease her remarks unless she has anything of great urgency to say to the chamber.
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I knew that I could not move an amendment today, but there are practical difficulties that might not have been foreseen—and that might not be foreseen—by oth...
Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to debate the issue today, as the subject of members' conduct goes hand in hand with our continuing desire to make the Scottish Par...
David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
Before I begin my speech, I want to declare all my registered interests, as I intend to refer to them.I have always argued that this Parliament should seek t...
Mr Rumbles:
LD
I will try to clarify the issue. If a member has a registrable interest, has registered it and wants to speak about it in a debate, the procedure is straight...
David Mundell:
Con
That is helpful, but guidance to members would be useful. Obviously, the situation will evolve as the committee considers individual cases, but—as Mr Rumbles...
Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
Although this might not be the most riveting subject for debate—by the number of members of the press who have been present throughout, it is clear that they...
Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP):
SSP
In public life, I have never lied or knowingly misled. That is why members who have asked me how I got my black eye have believed me when I have told them th...