Chamber
Plenary, 24 Feb 2000
24 Feb 2000 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Code of Conduct
Before I begin my speech, I want to declare all my registered interests, as I intend to refer to them.
I have always argued that this Parliament should seek to have among its members the widest range of people from across Scotland. In many ways, we must accept that we have not achieved that. We have discussions about gender and so on, but I do not think that we can truly say yet that the Parliament represents a cross-section of the Scottish population. That might be due to the political parties, which sometimes tend to put more weight on people's experience of giving out leaflets on a wet Saturday afternoon than on the range of life experiences that people could bring to the political arena.
I am pleased to welcome the code of conduct and the fact that it permits members of this Parliament to have outside interests, provided that they are fully declared and transparent. [Interruption.] I note from Jamie McGrigor that those interests do not include raising and lowering lecterns.
It is vital that the Parliament includes a cross-section of people with the widest range of interests. I have noticed that when members who have a background in the legal or medical professions or in working with children make points on those matters, other members pay particular attention. We need to encourage that if we are to attract new and different people into the Scottish Parliament. The register of interests indicates that the range of backgrounds among members is still very narrow.
It is important that the Standards Committee offers guidance to members on the declaration of interests, so that it is not perceived as a trial of individuals. Because I do not want to harry the clerks to the Standards Committee, whom I have found very helpful, I have decided to make the widest possible declaration of interests. That means that next week, when I ask Donald Dewar about whether he intends to establish a website, I will have already declared my interest. I would like some guidance on whether that is appropriate.
The other day we had a wide-ranging debate on the role of the Lord Advocate, in which a number of members with registered interests as lawyers spoke without declaring their interest. I do not think that they were doing anything wrong, but we need to understand the parameters within which we are operating, so that we do not fall foul of the rules. I am absolutely committed to transparency and to the principles set out in the report. However, if I and others wish to pursue outside interests, we need guidance. We need the climate that Mr McCabe spoke about—the presumption of underlying innocence in one's activities.
I have always argued that this Parliament should seek to have among its members the widest range of people from across Scotland. In many ways, we must accept that we have not achieved that. We have discussions about gender and so on, but I do not think that we can truly say yet that the Parliament represents a cross-section of the Scottish population. That might be due to the political parties, which sometimes tend to put more weight on people's experience of giving out leaflets on a wet Saturday afternoon than on the range of life experiences that people could bring to the political arena.
I am pleased to welcome the code of conduct and the fact that it permits members of this Parliament to have outside interests, provided that they are fully declared and transparent. [Interruption.] I note from Jamie McGrigor that those interests do not include raising and lowering lecterns.
It is vital that the Parliament includes a cross-section of people with the widest range of interests. I have noticed that when members who have a background in the legal or medical professions or in working with children make points on those matters, other members pay particular attention. We need to encourage that if we are to attract new and different people into the Scottish Parliament. The register of interests indicates that the range of backgrounds among members is still very narrow.
It is important that the Standards Committee offers guidance to members on the declaration of interests, so that it is not perceived as a trial of individuals. Because I do not want to harry the clerks to the Standards Committee, whom I have found very helpful, I have decided to make the widest possible declaration of interests. That means that next week, when I ask Donald Dewar about whether he intends to establish a website, I will have already declared my interest. I would like some guidance on whether that is appropriate.
The other day we had a wide-ranging debate on the role of the Lord Advocate, in which a number of members with registered interests as lawyers spoke without declaring their interest. I do not think that they were doing anything wrong, but we need to understand the parameters within which we are operating, so that we do not fall foul of the rules. I am absolutely committed to transparency and to the principles set out in the report. However, if I and others wish to pursue outside interests, we need guidance. We need the climate that Mr McCabe spoke about—the presumption of underlying innocence in one's activities.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
I remind members who may not have been present this morning that decision time will be at 5.30 pm today, to allow a full debate on the code of conduct. I cal...
Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
It is with great pleasure that I am able, on behalf of my colleagues on the Standards Committee, to present our first report of 2000, which proposes a draft ...
Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West):
*
When I made the affirmation on taking my seat in this Parliament, I made it clear that I believe in the sovereignty of the people of Scotland rather than the...
The Minister for Parliament (Mr Tom McCabe):
Lab
On behalf of the Executive, I will begin by expressing our thanks—and, I hope, those of the entire chamber—to the Standards Committee for its work in an area...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):
Con
I rise to support Mr Mike Rumbles and my parliamentary colleagues on the Standards Committee who have agreed the code of conduct for members of the Scottish ...
Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
I thank Tom McCabe for his comments about the Standards Committee and the work in which we have been engaged since we were all elected. I would particularly ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
Nine members have indicated a wish to speak before Des McNulty winds up the debate. It should be possible to include everybody if speeches are kept to about ...
Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the code of conduct and I applaud the work of the Standards Committee. Lord James Douglas-Hamilton said that he hoped that the code would keep all ...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I want to direct my remarks to section 8.3 of the code of conduct, on cross-party group rules. I endeavoured to intimate to Mike Rumbles and Des McNulty the ...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab):
Lab
On a point of order. I am concerned at the line and level of detail that Christine Grahame is pursuing. I do not think that it is appropriate in this context.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I share your concern, Mr McNulty.
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I accept that and will move on.A motion was put on the basis that the rules had not been ratified by the Parliament and that I was not debarred from moving t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Ms Grahame, I must ask you to focus on the work of the Standards Committee.
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I am focusing on it.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Do so more precisely, please.
Christine Grahame:
SNP
My point is that the group would have been inhibited in discussing certain matters if the public had been there—not members of the general public, but the tw...
Des McNulty:
Lab
On a point of order. There is a difficulty, as Christine Grahame has not formally lodged amendments to the motion.
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I accept that.
Des McNulty:
Lab
If Christine Grahame wants to propose amendments for the Standards Committee to consider at a subsequent stage, there is a mechanism to allow her to do that....
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I think that that would be fair. Will Ms Grahame please draw her remarks to a close?
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I shall draw my remarks to a close.
Mr Rumbles:
LD
It is important that we clarify the situation, so that members are absolutely clear about the rules for cross-party groups.The Parliament has already adopted...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I agree with that comment. I ask Christine Grahame to cease her remarks unless she has anything of great urgency to say to the chamber.
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I knew that I could not move an amendment today, but there are practical difficulties that might not have been foreseen—and that might not be foreseen—by oth...
Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to debate the issue today, as the subject of members' conduct goes hand in hand with our continuing desire to make the Scottish Par...
David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
Before I begin my speech, I want to declare all my registered interests, as I intend to refer to them.I have always argued that this Parliament should seek t...
Mr Rumbles:
LD
I will try to clarify the issue. If a member has a registrable interest, has registered it and wants to speak about it in a debate, the procedure is straight...
David Mundell:
Con
That is helpful, but guidance to members would be useful. Obviously, the situation will evolve as the committee considers individual cases, but—as Mr Rumbles...
Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
Although this might not be the most riveting subject for debate—by the number of members of the press who have been present throughout, it is clear that they...
Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP):
SSP
In public life, I have never lied or knowingly misled. That is why members who have asked me how I got my black eye have believed me when I have told them th...