Chamber
Plenary, 09 Dec 1999
09 Dec 1999 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I speak as the reporting member of the Health and Community Care Committee and as the deputy health spokesman for the Conservative party. When I welcome the changes that the Minister for
Justice has announced, I can do so only on behalf of my party—I would not like to speak for the committee on that. I am sure that the changes are very much to the point and have gone a long way to making my speech much shorter.
The Health and Community Care Committee has had a heavy work load recently, although discussion of our work on the Arbuthnott report is for another time and place. I was given the proposed bill on a Friday evening and asked to report on it by the following Wednesday morning after a visit to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee on the Tuesday. Although all members recognise the need for the bill and welcome it, that does not mean that we should be bounced into it. I apologise to any members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and the Health and Community Care Committee who might have felt that my report was not as robust as it could have been if more time had been available.
As someone who has found himself rather incapacitated on many a Saturday night, I welcome any measure that protects the rights and welfare of individuals with incapacity. On a more serious point, however, I know that people throughout Scotland will appreciate the steps that are being taken to ensure that adults with a variety of mental and learning difficulties will have their lives and affairs better managed.
The bill attempts to ensure that the wishes of adults with incapacity are observed while, at the same time, legislation is in place that will ensure that no advantage is taken of those people. In my report to the Health and Community Care Committee, I covered parts 1, 5 and 7 of the bill. Part 1 deals with general principles and definitions, part 5 ensures that those who are responsible for medical treatment are given the correct authority to treat the adult who is deemed incapable, and part 7 plugs many of the loopholes, concerns and limits of liability.
It is disappointing to note that, in comparison with similar legislation in other countries, the bill makes no attempt to recognise partial or temporary incapacity. Jim Wallace expects general practitioners to come to decisions in agreement with incapable adults and their carers, but the bill does not cover that. Other countries have gone some way towards realising that assisted decision making can be used in classifying someone as incapacitated. Many people can make sound and qualified decisions with assistance—indeed, the Liberal Democrats do it all the time.
Will the Minister for Justice assure me that when the Millan committee reports with its new definitions of mental health, he will review the position of the bill? If the definition of incapacity changes radically, the bill should be flexible
enough to reflect that difference.
Justice has announced, I can do so only on behalf of my party—I would not like to speak for the committee on that. I am sure that the changes are very much to the point and have gone a long way to making my speech much shorter.
The Health and Community Care Committee has had a heavy work load recently, although discussion of our work on the Arbuthnott report is for another time and place. I was given the proposed bill on a Friday evening and asked to report on it by the following Wednesday morning after a visit to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee on the Tuesday. Although all members recognise the need for the bill and welcome it, that does not mean that we should be bounced into it. I apologise to any members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and the Health and Community Care Committee who might have felt that my report was not as robust as it could have been if more time had been available.
As someone who has found himself rather incapacitated on many a Saturday night, I welcome any measure that protects the rights and welfare of individuals with incapacity. On a more serious point, however, I know that people throughout Scotland will appreciate the steps that are being taken to ensure that adults with a variety of mental and learning difficulties will have their lives and affairs better managed.
The bill attempts to ensure that the wishes of adults with incapacity are observed while, at the same time, legislation is in place that will ensure that no advantage is taken of those people. In my report to the Health and Community Care Committee, I covered parts 1, 5 and 7 of the bill. Part 1 deals with general principles and definitions, part 5 ensures that those who are responsible for medical treatment are given the correct authority to treat the adult who is deemed incapable, and part 7 plugs many of the loopholes, concerns and limits of liability.
It is disappointing to note that, in comparison with similar legislation in other countries, the bill makes no attempt to recognise partial or temporary incapacity. Jim Wallace expects general practitioners to come to decisions in agreement with incapable adults and their carers, but the bill does not cover that. Other countries have gone some way towards realising that assisted decision making can be used in classifying someone as incapacitated. Many people can make sound and qualified decisions with assistance—indeed, the Liberal Democrats do it all the time.
Will the Minister for Justice assure me that when the Millan committee reports with its new definitions of mental health, he will review the position of the bill? If the definition of incapacity changes radically, the bill should be flexible
enough to reflect that difference.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
We move to the next item of business, a debate on motion S1M-213, in the name of Mr Jim Wallace, which seeks the Parliament's agreement to the general princi...
The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice (Mr Jim Wallace):
LD
I am pleased to move this motion to approve the general principles of the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. The bill is a major piece of law reform. It...
Mrs Margaret Ewing (Moray) (SNP):
SNP
Part of the problem that I have with the bill is the inclusion of people in discussions of how to decide to give power of attorney, for example. What does th...
Mr Wallace:
LD
Individual cases—it is important to stress that cases are considered individually—will differ according to the individual's incapacity and the particular cir...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the change to section 44 and the deletion of the reference to nutrition and hydration by artificial means as a medical treatment. However, as that ...
Mr Wallace:
LD
Malcolm Chisholm is talking about situations in which there is a conflict of opinion between the doctor and the guardian on a proposed course of action. We h...
Roseanna Cunningham (Perth) (SNP):
SNP
It is only right that, as convener of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, I take a few minutes in the chamber to comment on the committee's experience of...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Please close.
Roseanna Cunningham:
SNP
A great deal of concern has also been expressed about the definition of "medical treatment" in the bill. In large part, that is linked to the definition of "...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Will you close now, please?
Roseanna Cunningham:
SNP
The clock shows that I have 50 seconds left, Presiding Officer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
You are two minutes over.
Roseanna Cunningham:
SNP
We should recognise that many organisations feel that, whether it intends to or not, the bill will introduce euthanasia by the back door. Much of the evidenc...
Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con):
Con
I speak as the reporting member of the Health and Community Care Committee and as the deputy health spokesman for the Conservative party. When I welcome the ...
Mr Jim Wallace:
LD
I am happy to give the member that assurance.
Ben Wallace:
Con
Although we all agree with its aims, the proposed legislation throws up the ethical question of euthanasia. Despite the minister's assurances, there are part...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I call Nora Radcliffe.
Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD):
LD
I did not expect to be called.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
You are on the list to speak for the Liberal Democrats. Do you want to speak? If not, I can open the general debate.
Nora Radcliffe:
LD
I have not prepared a speech, but I will make some remarks, wearing my equal opportunities hat. I welcome, in particular, the bill's emphasis on the rights o...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Contrary to expectation, we can probably fit in two general speeches before lunch. I call Richard Simpson, to be followed by Kay Ullrich.
Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab):
Lab
The bill is to be welcomed—that is clear—but there are some problems with it. I am not sure whether the bill will last as long as the Curators Act 1585, whic...
Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
As Roseanna Cunningham said, we made a commitment in our manifesto for the Scottish Parliament to support an incapable adults bill, with the proviso that the...
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
I am sorry, but the chair is in some slight confusion. The debate will be resumed this afternoon.I advise members who have indicated a wish to speak that I h...