Chamber
Plenary, 25 Nov 1999
25 Nov 1999 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Carers Strategy
Let me say at the outset how genuinely pleased and proud I am to be standing here today shoulder to shoulder with Iain Gray and other members of the Executive to put the strategy for carers before the Scottish Parliament and to place the needs and the voices of carers at the centre of our consideration.
Until a few moments ago, I thought that I would be able to welcome whole-heartedly and unequivocally the consensus and constructive comments that had emerged during the debate. That spirit was maintained until the last speech, which, sadly, was grudging, patronising and insulting—not to me or to the Executive, but to the carers and the people on whom the debate has focused and whose needs we care about.
I will, gladly, deal with the SNP amendment in my comments. I welcome many of the comments that members of the Opposition have made today but, as various members said yesterday, SNP members would do well to decide once and for all whether they welcome particular measures. If they welcome them, a single transferable amendment for every debate and for every motion is not appropriate. I suggest respectfully to the SNP that its amendment is not appropriate.
Speaker after speaker talked about the contribution that unpaid, informal carers make; I will not reiterate those points. However, I concur with the view that, for too long, carers have been taken for granted. Today, as Iain Gray and Margaret Smith said, we want to start—yes, start—to redress that situation. We have signalled our determination to ensure that the needs of carers are addressed and, as important, that their voices are heard.
I am conscious that when I say "their voices", that feels slightly wrong because, as evidenced in the debate, this matter is not just about them—in many ways, it is about us. It is about our families, our relatives, our loved ones and our communities. It is about what we value and whom we value as a Parliament and as a country. Many members have made heartfelt speeches based on personal experience. That perspective is important and enhances our capacity to be effective policy makers and legislators.
I will deal with some of the points that were raised. I am conscious of the fact that I will be able to address only a few of them, but we have listened carefully to the comments that have been made—many of them will be taken up in the consultations and discussions that we will be having in the weeks and months ahead. For example, some of the points that Kate MacLean and Fiona McLeod made might appropriately be considered by the legislation working group.
Reference was made to reserved matters. Of course we recognise that there are policy areas that are reserved and dealt with at a UK level but that impact upon carers and users of services. In our work, we will embrace many of those areas. For example, in the information for carers, we do not draw a line between what is reserved and what is devolved; we ensure that all the information is brought together. We will concentrate our efforts and energies on making changes in the areas in which we have powers to do so. That is right and proper and it is the correct use of our time. Of course we will continue to co-operate and liaise with our colleagues south of the border to ensure that we make the maximum impact and deliver the maximum benefit to the people of Scotland. I give an assurance that we will continue to do that in relation to the royal commission and to many of the matters that have been mentioned today.
There have rightly been a considerable number of references to local government. We want to work with local government to make a difference. We want to ensure that we work together so that we come up with solutions that are right for the people of Scotland and that deliver services as effectively as possible.
Many members have mentioned the need for effective communication and joined-up working. We are putting that into practice and translating rhetoric into reality. Iain Gray and I met representatives of every local authority and every NHS trust just a couple of weeks ago to discuss how we could take forward our community care agenda. At that meeting, we were addressed by a carer—directly and vociferously—and we will be taking forward the points that were raised.
Until a few moments ago, I thought that I would be able to welcome whole-heartedly and unequivocally the consensus and constructive comments that had emerged during the debate. That spirit was maintained until the last speech, which, sadly, was grudging, patronising and insulting—not to me or to the Executive, but to the carers and the people on whom the debate has focused and whose needs we care about.
I will, gladly, deal with the SNP amendment in my comments. I welcome many of the comments that members of the Opposition have made today but, as various members said yesterday, SNP members would do well to decide once and for all whether they welcome particular measures. If they welcome them, a single transferable amendment for every debate and for every motion is not appropriate. I suggest respectfully to the SNP that its amendment is not appropriate.
Speaker after speaker talked about the contribution that unpaid, informal carers make; I will not reiterate those points. However, I concur with the view that, for too long, carers have been taken for granted. Today, as Iain Gray and Margaret Smith said, we want to start—yes, start—to redress that situation. We have signalled our determination to ensure that the needs of carers are addressed and, as important, that their voices are heard.
I am conscious that when I say "their voices", that feels slightly wrong because, as evidenced in the debate, this matter is not just about them—in many ways, it is about us. It is about our families, our relatives, our loved ones and our communities. It is about what we value and whom we value as a Parliament and as a country. Many members have made heartfelt speeches based on personal experience. That perspective is important and enhances our capacity to be effective policy makers and legislators.
I will deal with some of the points that were raised. I am conscious of the fact that I will be able to address only a few of them, but we have listened carefully to the comments that have been made—many of them will be taken up in the consultations and discussions that we will be having in the weeks and months ahead. For example, some of the points that Kate MacLean and Fiona McLeod made might appropriately be considered by the legislation working group.
Reference was made to reserved matters. Of course we recognise that there are policy areas that are reserved and dealt with at a UK level but that impact upon carers and users of services. In our work, we will embrace many of those areas. For example, in the information for carers, we do not draw a line between what is reserved and what is devolved; we ensure that all the information is brought together. We will concentrate our efforts and energies on making changes in the areas in which we have powers to do so. That is right and proper and it is the correct use of our time. Of course we will continue to co-operate and liaise with our colleagues south of the border to ensure that we make the maximum impact and deliver the maximum benefit to the people of Scotland. I give an assurance that we will continue to do that in relation to the royal commission and to many of the matters that have been mentioned today.
There have rightly been a considerable number of references to local government. We want to work with local government to make a difference. We want to ensure that we work together so that we come up with solutions that are right for the people of Scotland and that deliver services as effectively as possible.
Many members have mentioned the need for effective communication and joined-up working. We are putting that into practice and translating rhetoric into reality. Iain Gray and I met representatives of every local authority and every NHS trust just a couple of weeks ago to discuss how we could take forward our community care agenda. At that meeting, we were addressed by a carer—directly and vociferously—and we will be taking forward the points that were raised.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-317, in the name of Iain Gray, on the Executive's commitment to the introduction of a carers strategy, an...
The Deputy Minister for Community Care (Iain Gray):
Lab
I welcome to the public gallery carers who have travelled from all over Scotland to be here today. Given the caring responsibilities that they have, that rep...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I can now give an interim answer to the point of order that was raised by Kay Ullrich. I understand that the parliamentary question was asked by Lewis Macdon...
Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
welcome the sentiments that the minister has expressed. I am sure that carers across Scotland will join me in regarding this as a first step in the long-over...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
We welcome today's motion. I congratulate the minister and Kay Ullrich on their contributions to an evocative and important matter. The minister is also to b...
Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
Mr Aitken says that the matter is not a question of finance and goes on to highlight the shortcomings in local government and the need to plough more money i...
Bill Aitken:
Con
Of course it is a question of finance, but it is also a question of enabling the people who might be on the periphery of making a contribution to do so. I do...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD):
LD
On behalf of the Liberal Democrats, I join in the plaudits to the deputy minister, who has produced a good paper and brought it before the chamber in an unde...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
A number of members want to speak in this afternoon's debate. I ask members to keep their speeches as close as possible to four minutes.
Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome today's debate. It is essential that our discussion of this issue is informed and constructive. We must move the carers agenda forward. The Scottis...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):
Lab
Does the member for Airdrie and Shotts agree that the doubled allocation of resources for the provision of carers services, including respite care, displays ...
Karen Whitefield:
Lab
Yes, I agree.It is especially important that priority has been given to young carers. It is estimated that there are around 5,000 young carers in Scotland, a...
Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I, too, welcome the fact that we have highlighted young carers today and I wish to confine my remarks to that subject. I am glad that young carers are being ...
Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab):
Lab
I must begin by declaring that I still act as a medical adviser to foster carers in the former Central Region, now Falkirk, Stirling and Clackmannanshire. Th...
Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to debate this extremely important issue in Parliament. I will use my time to draw attention to the needs of the valuable people wh...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
There is time for one more speaker. I call Kate MacLean; you have three minutes.
Kate MacLean (Dundee West) (Lab):
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will try to be brief. Iain Gray said that one of the first events he attended as a minister was a carers event. I wonder whet...
Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
On a point of order. Might it be noted when we have important debates such as this in future that ministers should not make statements prior to the debate? P...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Thank you. I understand the point of order.
Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the minister's comprehensive speech and, like all the other members who have spoken today, the strategy for carers. It is good that we have moved t...
Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP):
SSP
On a point of order. It has been the practice for the Presiding Officer to indicate the number of members who wanted to speak in the debate but were unsucces...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I am not aware that that is a practice, Mr Sheridan. For your information, I believe that the number is three.
Tommy Sheridan:
SSP
Thank you.
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
Much of what I wanted to say has been said. I am delighted that there is such consensus on this issue. I would like to think that, whether in a small or in a...
Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the tone and substance of this debate. Members from all parts of the chamber have made good speeches. I am sure that the Minister for Health and Co...
Iain Gray:
Lab
Will Mr Hamilton give way?
Mr Hamilton:
SNP
I will not give way.The £5 million is a relaunch of money that has already been allocated. Welcome though that money is, let us not go down the track of sugg...
The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon):
Lab
Let me say at the outset how genuinely pleased and proud I am to be standing here today shoulder to shoulder with Iain Gray and other members of the Executiv...
Kay Ullrich:
SNP
When the minister met representatives of local authorities, did they assure her that they were receiving adequate funding to provide community care services?
Susan Deacon:
Lab
Perhaps this is the appropriate point at which to address the SNP amendment. Amendments such as the one that has been moved today are dishonest and disingenu...