Chamber
Plenary, 25 Nov 1999
25 Nov 1999 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Carers Strategy
We welcome today's motion. I congratulate the minister and Kay Ullrich on their contributions to an evocative and important matter.
The minister is also to be congratulated on being quite honest. He has not tried to claim that he is putting a great deal more money in. He is talking about £5 million. If we bear in mind my comments about hype over the past few days, the minister's speech made a refreshing change.
The Administration is to be congratulated on making constructive proposals. We shall await with interest—and perhaps increasing cynicism— the final proposals. However, at this stage, there seems to be consensus, which is to be encouraged.
I am grateful to have this opportunity to pay my own tribute, and the tributes of the Conservative party, to carers. They are an army of unsung heroes whose efforts go largely unrecognised— and certainly unrewarded. Parliament has a clear duty to do everything possible to recognise and reward—albeit in a detached but realistic way— the efforts that many people throughout the country make to assist those who are less fortunate.
What is the profile of a carer? As Kay Ullrich quite properly said, carers are usually women. Perhaps, Kay, it is because women live longer than men that, most of the time, they get the heavy end of the load. Women's contribution towards caring is certainly significant.
I note that the minister has undertaken to ask, in the next census, the appropriate questions to get a clearer profile of carers. The general household survey gives some interesting figures, and I commend it to him. In particular, it draws attention to the number of young people under the age of 16 who are actively involved in caring. Something like half a million people in Scotland are involved in caring, and 5,000 of them are under 16. To
them in particular we owe a real debt.
How can we make matters better? Ultimately, more resources are the answer, but—this is perhaps where I part company with Kay Ullrich and the amendment she moved—we have to recognise that local government's contribution over the past few years has not been especially significant. As I am sure Susan Deacon will accept, bedblocking is a problem. If local government had been providing appropriate community care services, we would not have arrived at the present situation—more than 1,700 patients confined in hospital who could be receiving care out in the community, where they would be very much happier and able to contribute to wider society.
How can we extend the body of carers? In most cases, carers are relatives; in other cases, they are—as Iain Gray said—close personal friends. But is a carer not also someone who works for charity, or who is a member of a church or voluntary organisation, and who gives of his or her time in order to assist? Should we not be examining—as Kay Ullrich suggests—our taxation system so that we can help people to make that contribution to caring, and perhaps encourage more people to do so?
It is not, of course, a question only of finance. Iain Gray dealt with that point. I would, however, like to mentions one statistic that I think is worth noting. If we paid the 500,000 people who contribute towards caring a nominal amount of £40 a week, the bill would work out at £1 billion a year, which measures up almost exactly to the social work budget for the current financial year. Perhaps that point should be recognised and accepted.
Thought should also be given to people who make their contribution in the more inaccessible rural parts of Scotland. Surely we should consider extending the rebate on fuel duty to community transport schemes. That would have a marked effect on people in those areas.
The minister is also to be congratulated on being quite honest. He has not tried to claim that he is putting a great deal more money in. He is talking about £5 million. If we bear in mind my comments about hype over the past few days, the minister's speech made a refreshing change.
The Administration is to be congratulated on making constructive proposals. We shall await with interest—and perhaps increasing cynicism— the final proposals. However, at this stage, there seems to be consensus, which is to be encouraged.
I am grateful to have this opportunity to pay my own tribute, and the tributes of the Conservative party, to carers. They are an army of unsung heroes whose efforts go largely unrecognised— and certainly unrewarded. Parliament has a clear duty to do everything possible to recognise and reward—albeit in a detached but realistic way— the efforts that many people throughout the country make to assist those who are less fortunate.
What is the profile of a carer? As Kay Ullrich quite properly said, carers are usually women. Perhaps, Kay, it is because women live longer than men that, most of the time, they get the heavy end of the load. Women's contribution towards caring is certainly significant.
I note that the minister has undertaken to ask, in the next census, the appropriate questions to get a clearer profile of carers. The general household survey gives some interesting figures, and I commend it to him. In particular, it draws attention to the number of young people under the age of 16 who are actively involved in caring. Something like half a million people in Scotland are involved in caring, and 5,000 of them are under 16. To
them in particular we owe a real debt.
How can we make matters better? Ultimately, more resources are the answer, but—this is perhaps where I part company with Kay Ullrich and the amendment she moved—we have to recognise that local government's contribution over the past few years has not been especially significant. As I am sure Susan Deacon will accept, bedblocking is a problem. If local government had been providing appropriate community care services, we would not have arrived at the present situation—more than 1,700 patients confined in hospital who could be receiving care out in the community, where they would be very much happier and able to contribute to wider society.
How can we extend the body of carers? In most cases, carers are relatives; in other cases, they are—as Iain Gray said—close personal friends. But is a carer not also someone who works for charity, or who is a member of a church or voluntary organisation, and who gives of his or her time in order to assist? Should we not be examining—as Kay Ullrich suggests—our taxation system so that we can help people to make that contribution to caring, and perhaps encourage more people to do so?
It is not, of course, a question only of finance. Iain Gray dealt with that point. I would, however, like to mentions one statistic that I think is worth noting. If we paid the 500,000 people who contribute towards caring a nominal amount of £40 a week, the bill would work out at £1 billion a year, which measures up almost exactly to the social work budget for the current financial year. Perhaps that point should be recognised and accepted.
Thought should also be given to people who make their contribution in the more inaccessible rural parts of Scotland. Surely we should consider extending the rebate on fuel duty to community transport schemes. That would have a marked effect on people in those areas.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-317, in the name of Iain Gray, on the Executive's commitment to the introduction of a carers strategy, an...
The Deputy Minister for Community Care (Iain Gray):
Lab
I welcome to the public gallery carers who have travelled from all over Scotland to be here today. Given the caring responsibilities that they have, that rep...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I can now give an interim answer to the point of order that was raised by Kay Ullrich. I understand that the parliamentary question was asked by Lewis Macdon...
Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
welcome the sentiments that the minister has expressed. I am sure that carers across Scotland will join me in regarding this as a first step in the long-over...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
We welcome today's motion. I congratulate the minister and Kay Ullrich on their contributions to an evocative and important matter. The minister is also to b...
Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
Mr Aitken says that the matter is not a question of finance and goes on to highlight the shortcomings in local government and the need to plough more money i...
Bill Aitken:
Con
Of course it is a question of finance, but it is also a question of enabling the people who might be on the periphery of making a contribution to do so. I do...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD):
LD
On behalf of the Liberal Democrats, I join in the plaudits to the deputy minister, who has produced a good paper and brought it before the chamber in an unde...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
A number of members want to speak in this afternoon's debate. I ask members to keep their speeches as close as possible to four minutes.
Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome today's debate. It is essential that our discussion of this issue is informed and constructive. We must move the carers agenda forward. The Scottis...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):
Lab
Does the member for Airdrie and Shotts agree that the doubled allocation of resources for the provision of carers services, including respite care, displays ...
Karen Whitefield:
Lab
Yes, I agree.It is especially important that priority has been given to young carers. It is estimated that there are around 5,000 young carers in Scotland, a...
Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I, too, welcome the fact that we have highlighted young carers today and I wish to confine my remarks to that subject. I am glad that young carers are being ...
Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab):
Lab
I must begin by declaring that I still act as a medical adviser to foster carers in the former Central Region, now Falkirk, Stirling and Clackmannanshire. Th...
Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to debate this extremely important issue in Parliament. I will use my time to draw attention to the needs of the valuable people wh...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
There is time for one more speaker. I call Kate MacLean; you have three minutes.
Kate MacLean (Dundee West) (Lab):
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will try to be brief. Iain Gray said that one of the first events he attended as a minister was a carers event. I wonder whet...
Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
On a point of order. Might it be noted when we have important debates such as this in future that ministers should not make statements prior to the debate? P...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Thank you. I understand the point of order.
Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I welcome the minister's comprehensive speech and, like all the other members who have spoken today, the strategy for carers. It is good that we have moved t...
Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP):
SSP
On a point of order. It has been the practice for the Presiding Officer to indicate the number of members who wanted to speak in the debate but were unsucces...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I am not aware that that is a practice, Mr Sheridan. For your information, I believe that the number is three.
Tommy Sheridan:
SSP
Thank you.
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
Much of what I wanted to say has been said. I am delighted that there is such consensus on this issue. I would like to think that, whether in a small or in a...
Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the tone and substance of this debate. Members from all parts of the chamber have made good speeches. I am sure that the Minister for Health and Co...
Iain Gray:
Lab
Will Mr Hamilton give way?
Mr Hamilton:
SNP
I will not give way.The £5 million is a relaunch of money that has already been allocated. Welcome though that money is, let us not go down the track of sugg...
The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon):
Lab
Let me say at the outset how genuinely pleased and proud I am to be standing here today shoulder to shoulder with Iain Gray and other members of the Executiv...
Kay Ullrich:
SNP
When the minister met representatives of local authorities, did they assure her that they were receiving adequate funding to provide community care services?
Susan Deacon:
Lab
Perhaps this is the appropriate point at which to address the SNP amendment. Amendments such as the one that has been moved today are dishonest and disingenu...