Chamber
Plenary, 17 Nov 1999
17 Nov 1999 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Child Care Strategy
I thank Malcolm Chisholm for his contribution, even though he said about a quarter of the things that I wanted to say in my speech.
The Scottish National party welcomes the debate. Good, affordable child care has always been a flagship policy of ours. However, no motion or strategy is perfect, even if it comes from this Executive. I firmly believe that our amendment strengthens the motion, and I ask the minister to accept it. It also addresses some of the concerns that have been mentioned during the debate.
There should be a seamless approach to child care from the time before the child starts school. In many instances, that is not the case. I will speak about top-slicing, as Brian Monteith did, but I will come at it from a different angle. We know that the Government allocates £1,175 to schools for every school place, but each local authority has a different type of top-slicing. Glasgow City Council top-slices £250 from that figure, leaving £925 per place. City of Edinburgh Council top-slices only £134, leaving £1,041. North Lanarkshire top-slices £242, leaving £933. South Lanarkshire, however, top-slices the same amount as Glasgow does. My point is that that causes confusion for providers that deal with different authorities. I would like the minister to address that and perhaps put a strategy in place to allow all local authorities to work together.
Training is a related issue. Top-sliced money goes to training and, while some local authorities with staff who are on placements from other local authorities are flexible and will pay for training in the local authority where the nursery is based, others insist that the teachers are sent to the local authority that they came from. That means that the member of staff is not at work for two or three days and the nursery must pay the travel costs.
A further problem is payment. Many providers have come to me to discuss local authorities that make late payments. I hate to say this, but Glasgow is probably one of the worst. At the moment, there are people in the Glasgow area who have not been paid since August.
Glasgow City Council received some of the funding from the Scottish Office, but it has not paid it out. That has meant that the nurseries are in debt. People are telling me that they are practically closing down, as they have had to arrange overdrafts with their banks. I would like the Executive to consider that and determine whether something can be done to help those nurseries. It is important to them and to child development that
people use those nurseries.
As I said, I hoped that the Executive would take our amendment on board. We need to secure long-term funding. The motion does not address that properly; our amendment enhances the motion. We also need integration of provision, as I have highlighted.
The Scottish National party welcomes the debate. Good, affordable child care has always been a flagship policy of ours. However, no motion or strategy is perfect, even if it comes from this Executive. I firmly believe that our amendment strengthens the motion, and I ask the minister to accept it. It also addresses some of the concerns that have been mentioned during the debate.
There should be a seamless approach to child care from the time before the child starts school. In many instances, that is not the case. I will speak about top-slicing, as Brian Monteith did, but I will come at it from a different angle. We know that the Government allocates £1,175 to schools for every school place, but each local authority has a different type of top-slicing. Glasgow City Council top-slices £250 from that figure, leaving £925 per place. City of Edinburgh Council top-slices only £134, leaving £1,041. North Lanarkshire top-slices £242, leaving £933. South Lanarkshire, however, top-slices the same amount as Glasgow does. My point is that that causes confusion for providers that deal with different authorities. I would like the minister to address that and perhaps put a strategy in place to allow all local authorities to work together.
Training is a related issue. Top-sliced money goes to training and, while some local authorities with staff who are on placements from other local authorities are flexible and will pay for training in the local authority where the nursery is based, others insist that the teachers are sent to the local authority that they came from. That means that the member of staff is not at work for two or three days and the nursery must pay the travel costs.
A further problem is payment. Many providers have come to me to discuss local authorities that make late payments. I hate to say this, but Glasgow is probably one of the worst. At the moment, there are people in the Glasgow area who have not been paid since August.
Glasgow City Council received some of the funding from the Scottish Office, but it has not paid it out. That has meant that the nurseries are in debt. People are telling me that they are practically closing down, as they have had to arrange overdrafts with their banks. I would like the Executive to consider that and determine whether something can be done to help those nurseries. It is important to them and to child development that
people use those nurseries.
As I said, I hoped that the Executive would take our amendment on board. We need to secure long-term funding. The motion does not address that properly; our amendment enhances the motion. We also need integration of provision, as I have highlighted.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Patricia Ferguson):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-285 in the name of Mr Sam Galbraith, on the Scottish Executive's child care strategy for Scotland, and an...
The Minister for Children and Education (Mr Sam Galbraith):
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer.I hope that we will not find too much difference among the parties in this debate; that is reflected in the amendment lodged by ...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome this afternoon's debate on the Scottish Executive's child care strategy for Scotland. The child care strategy is one of many policies that has been...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
Will the member give way?
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
Not just now; let me get into my stride. Early education and child care should not be a political battleground. We have a shared interest in securing for eve...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the tone of Nicola Sturgeon's speech and I thank her for visiting my constituency this morning. Does she realise that, as part of the national chil...
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
The child care tax credit is certainly a step in the right direction and some of my colleagues will mention it, but there are loopholes and weaknesses in it....
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I am pleased to welcome what the minister said. I see that that brings a smile to his face. I hope that he will still be smiling at the end of my short contr...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
Will the member give way?
Mr Monteith:
Con
I thought that no one was going to ask. I have been waiting for an intervention—I even wrote "intervention" on my notes—so I am glad that Fiona Hyslop has ob...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
The subject of free education is topical at the moment, given the issue of tuition fees. Does the Conservative education spokesperson believe in free educati...
Mr Monteith:
Con
No. The Conservatives do not believe in universal provision of free education for three and four-year-olds. However, we recognise that there must be some sta...
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
Will the member give way?
Mr Monteith:
Con
I am practically out of time, but I will give way if the intervention is relevant to my previous point.
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
Given that after-school clubs will be supported mainly by the child care tax credit element of the working families tax credit, how will the Conservatives' p...
Mr Monteith:
Con
As is quite clear, we intend to ensure that funding is made available for such clubs. We do not intend to introduce a system that brings in more means testin...
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):
LD
It is my pleasure, and my party's pleasure, to support warmly Sam Galbraith's motion. The great thing about coming fourth in the opening speeches is that one...
Mr Stone:
LD
I see the deputy minister nodding. There has been a worryingly high turnover of staff up to now, and we must fine-tune that issue. The minister has drawn the...
Mrs Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome today's announcements. Any child care strategy should be developed in the way that this strategy has been—with much input from many people. Althoug...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Immediately before I became an MSP, I worked for Angus Council, helping to implement the child care strategy. Like most practitioners, I welcomed the fact th...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab):
Lab
There is nothing complacent about the Executive's motion, and I am sure that the Scottish National party amendment would have been accepted had it not implie...
Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I thank Malcolm Chisholm for his contribution, even though he said about a quarter of the things that I wanted to say in my speech. The Scottish National par...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):
Lab
I am grateful to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. Like others, I commend the Executive for pursuing the strategy of good- quality, affordable and...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
As a parent who depended very much on the good will of my own family, my in-laws and friends, I welcome the child care strategy. There is no doubt that a mor...
Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to debate the child care strategy for Scotland. For too long children have been seen as little more than passive recipients of serv...
Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I will talk briefly about the qualifications of child care workers, and also about a more integrated approach that includes social inclusion partnerships as ...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
I would like to congratulate the Executive on the progress that it has made on child care. The issue is widely supported across the parties and the Executive...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I warmly welcome the Minister for Children and Education's statement. The new allocation for child care represents something in the order of a 140 per cent i...
Mr Monteith:
Con
I point out to Helen Eadie that, in the first year after the voucher scheme was introduced, 63,467 children attended some form of pre-school education. Only ...
Helen Eadie:
Lab
At the general election, I was a candidate in Roxburgh and Berwickshire, where I worked for 18 months to two years. I know that there was great hostility the...