Chamber
Plenary, 17 Nov 1999
17 Nov 1999 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Child Care Strategy
No. The Conservatives do not believe in universal provision of free education for three and four-year-olds. However, we recognise that there must be some state provision. Our manifesto included a policy that recognised that the current system provided only for part-time care and that the expansion of provision to three and four-year-olds would still provide only part-time care. We therefore advocated the use of vouchers to provide a minimum—to ensure provision for every child—that could be topped up. Parents could decide to split the voucher to provide part- time care for three or four years or to use it for full- time education for their four-year-old. That shows that we want to work with the grain of parental need, which is particularly important when discussing the child care strategy.
Labour claims that its child care policies improve choice and access for parents. Although we may get there in the end, that is not necessarily the case yet. When we introduced nursery vouchers, 80 per cent of children went into local authority provision. Since the vouchers were abolished, that figure has risen to 86.2 per cent. It is evident from many of our constituencies that private and voluntary provision is being crowded out. There are a number of reasons for that, and it is important that we take due regard of them when applying the strategy.
When, for example, local authorities decided to provide nursery care, often adjacent to existing playgroups, many parents decided to take their children out of playgroups and put them into the nurseries, because they saw the nurseries as a route into the schools that they wanted their children to attend. It was not the teaching, the play or the care that mattered to them, but the fact that the nurseries offered them a way of getting their child into a particular school. The Executive should take note of that.
It is also important that we pay regard to the education white paper cum bill, which proposes to make nursery provision a statutory duty. I have some concerns about that, because the funding is not ring-fenced. Some local authorities, by top- slicing for an administration charge, are already making it difficult for parents to choose private or voluntary care. In East Dunbartonshire, for example, the local authority imposes an administration charge on voluntary or private nurseries of some £268. In Falkirk, the charge is £295. In Highland, it is £245 for the voluntary sector and £105 for the private sector. In North Lanarkshire, it is £240. Western Isles Council charges £35. Local authorities impose those charges, but private nurseries often pass them on to parents—for whom they represent, in effect, an extra charge.
I am worried that, because the white paper imposes a statutory duty on local authorities, they may decide to change the pricing structure further and to enter into partnership agreements that make it impossible for private sector nursery provision to co-exist with local authority provision. Because there will be no ring-fenced protection, the private nurseries may be forced out of the sector; there will be not so much a partnership as two classes of provision. That does not accord with what I have heard the minister and many members of the Scottish Executive say in the past—that they want partnership, rather than a divided, isolated society.
It is important that we give some consideration to the sort of care that is provided. Teaching is not always appropriate; child care should be more about play and interaction through which children can develop social skills. We should be encouraging flexibility of choice, rather than monolithic provision by local authorities.
It is also important that we are assured that, if the private and voluntary sectors use new opportunities fund money, they will not face funding problems two or three years down the line. Children in Scotland has said:
"Out-of-school care and study-support schemes are being promoted through ‘pump-priming' funds from the National Lottery. The grants, however, are only for one- year after which projects are expected to sustain themselves—which is likely to be unrealistic."
I recognise that the minister has made an announcement on this, but we need greater assurances before we can be relaxed—or complacent, to use Nicola Sturgeon's word—about groups surviving beyond the initial period.
Labour claims that its child care policies improve choice and access for parents. Although we may get there in the end, that is not necessarily the case yet. When we introduced nursery vouchers, 80 per cent of children went into local authority provision. Since the vouchers were abolished, that figure has risen to 86.2 per cent. It is evident from many of our constituencies that private and voluntary provision is being crowded out. There are a number of reasons for that, and it is important that we take due regard of them when applying the strategy.
When, for example, local authorities decided to provide nursery care, often adjacent to existing playgroups, many parents decided to take their children out of playgroups and put them into the nurseries, because they saw the nurseries as a route into the schools that they wanted their children to attend. It was not the teaching, the play or the care that mattered to them, but the fact that the nurseries offered them a way of getting their child into a particular school. The Executive should take note of that.
It is also important that we pay regard to the education white paper cum bill, which proposes to make nursery provision a statutory duty. I have some concerns about that, because the funding is not ring-fenced. Some local authorities, by top- slicing for an administration charge, are already making it difficult for parents to choose private or voluntary care. In East Dunbartonshire, for example, the local authority imposes an administration charge on voluntary or private nurseries of some £268. In Falkirk, the charge is £295. In Highland, it is £245 for the voluntary sector and £105 for the private sector. In North Lanarkshire, it is £240. Western Isles Council charges £35. Local authorities impose those charges, but private nurseries often pass them on to parents—for whom they represent, in effect, an extra charge.
I am worried that, because the white paper imposes a statutory duty on local authorities, they may decide to change the pricing structure further and to enter into partnership agreements that make it impossible for private sector nursery provision to co-exist with local authority provision. Because there will be no ring-fenced protection, the private nurseries may be forced out of the sector; there will be not so much a partnership as two classes of provision. That does not accord with what I have heard the minister and many members of the Scottish Executive say in the past—that they want partnership, rather than a divided, isolated society.
It is important that we give some consideration to the sort of care that is provided. Teaching is not always appropriate; child care should be more about play and interaction through which children can develop social skills. We should be encouraging flexibility of choice, rather than monolithic provision by local authorities.
It is also important that we are assured that, if the private and voluntary sectors use new opportunities fund money, they will not face funding problems two or three years down the line. Children in Scotland has said:
"Out-of-school care and study-support schemes are being promoted through ‘pump-priming' funds from the National Lottery. The grants, however, are only for one- year after which projects are expected to sustain themselves—which is likely to be unrealistic."
I recognise that the minister has made an announcement on this, but we need greater assurances before we can be relaxed—or complacent, to use Nicola Sturgeon's word—about groups surviving beyond the initial period.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Patricia Ferguson):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-285 in the name of Mr Sam Galbraith, on the Scottish Executive's child care strategy for Scotland, and an...
The Minister for Children and Education (Mr Sam Galbraith):
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer.I hope that we will not find too much difference among the parties in this debate; that is reflected in the amendment lodged by ...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome this afternoon's debate on the Scottish Executive's child care strategy for Scotland. The child care strategy is one of many policies that has been...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
Will the member give way?
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
Not just now; let me get into my stride. Early education and child care should not be a political battleground. We have a shared interest in securing for eve...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the tone of Nicola Sturgeon's speech and I thank her for visiting my constituency this morning. Does she realise that, as part of the national chil...
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
The child care tax credit is certainly a step in the right direction and some of my colleagues will mention it, but there are loopholes and weaknesses in it....
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I am pleased to welcome what the minister said. I see that that brings a smile to his face. I hope that he will still be smiling at the end of my short contr...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
Will the member give way?
Mr Monteith:
Con
I thought that no one was going to ask. I have been waiting for an intervention—I even wrote "intervention" on my notes—so I am glad that Fiona Hyslop has ob...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
The subject of free education is topical at the moment, given the issue of tuition fees. Does the Conservative education spokesperson believe in free educati...
Mr Monteith:
Con
No. The Conservatives do not believe in universal provision of free education for three and four-year-olds. However, we recognise that there must be some sta...
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
Will the member give way?
Mr Monteith:
Con
I am practically out of time, but I will give way if the intervention is relevant to my previous point.
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
Given that after-school clubs will be supported mainly by the child care tax credit element of the working families tax credit, how will the Conservatives' p...
Mr Monteith:
Con
As is quite clear, we intend to ensure that funding is made available for such clubs. We do not intend to introduce a system that brings in more means testin...
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):
LD
It is my pleasure, and my party's pleasure, to support warmly Sam Galbraith's motion. The great thing about coming fourth in the opening speeches is that one...
Mr Stone:
LD
I see the deputy minister nodding. There has been a worryingly high turnover of staff up to now, and we must fine-tune that issue. The minister has drawn the...
Mrs Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome today's announcements. Any child care strategy should be developed in the way that this strategy has been—with much input from many people. Althoug...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Immediately before I became an MSP, I worked for Angus Council, helping to implement the child care strategy. Like most practitioners, I welcomed the fact th...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab):
Lab
There is nothing complacent about the Executive's motion, and I am sure that the Scottish National party amendment would have been accepted had it not implie...
Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I thank Malcolm Chisholm for his contribution, even though he said about a quarter of the things that I wanted to say in my speech. The Scottish National par...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):
Lab
I am grateful to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. Like others, I commend the Executive for pursuing the strategy of good- quality, affordable and...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
As a parent who depended very much on the good will of my own family, my in-laws and friends, I welcome the child care strategy. There is no doubt that a mor...
Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to debate the child care strategy for Scotland. For too long children have been seen as little more than passive recipients of serv...
Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I will talk briefly about the qualifications of child care workers, and also about a more integrated approach that includes social inclusion partnerships as ...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
I would like to congratulate the Executive on the progress that it has made on child care. The issue is widely supported across the parties and the Executive...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I warmly welcome the Minister for Children and Education's statement. The new allocation for child care represents something in the order of a 140 per cent i...
Mr Monteith:
Con
I point out to Helen Eadie that, in the first year after the voucher scheme was introduced, 63,467 children attended some form of pre-school education. Only ...
Helen Eadie:
Lab
At the general election, I was a candidate in Roxburgh and Berwickshire, where I worked for 18 months to two years. I know that there was great hostility the...