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Committee

Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change Committee, 09 Jun 2009

09 Jun 2009 · S3 · Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change Committee
Item of business
Climate Change (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I am content to support amendments 222 and 223. Amendment 222 would require the Scottish ministers to publish a plan that included provision for"improving the energy efficiency of living accommodation".The Scottish ministers are happy to support that principle. Amendment 223 would require the energy efficiency action plan to include annual energy efficiency targets and to describe how the targets should be reported on. The approach is in line with our plans, so I am pleased to support it. Of course, the committee must reach its own conclusions on the matter.The convener asked where we would get our energy efficiency targets. In previous debates I have said that we would always want our targets to be driven by expert advice. We would not take a different approach to energy efficiency targets. There is no question of the Government producing figures yet. However, I make clear our commitment to accept amendments 222 and 223.Amendment 252, in the convener's name, would require the energy efficiency action plan to include a broad range of targets for energy efficiency, microgeneration installations and the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions from new and existing domestic and non-domestic buildings. It is probably too early to set meaningful targets for microgeneration and greenhouse gas reduction in buildings. I expect to have the evidence base to set such targets in the future, but currently there is no solid evidential base on which to set targets in primary legislation. That brings me back to my point about the need for expert advice.Three of the targets that are proposed in amendment 252 are significantly more demanding than the approach that was recommended by the expert panel that produced the Sullivan report, "A Low Carbon Building Standards Strategy for Scotland", which recommended that from 2016 all new buildings should be net zero-carbon buildings. Due to building warrant duration, amendment 252 would bring in such a target three years earlier than is envisaged in the Sullivan report.The Sullivan report's recommendations on the interim emissions reduction targets for non-domestic buildings—to deliver CO2 savings of 50 per cent and 75 per cent more than current standards in 2010 and 2013 respectively—would apply not only to new buildings, as Sullivan envisaged, but to the entire existing building stock, if amendment 252 were agreed to. Therefore, I cannot support amendment 252.Amendment 232, to which Iain Smith spoke on behalf of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, would prevent the repeal of section 179 of the Housing (Scotland) Act 2006. We have accepted amendment 222, which would confer on the Scottish ministers a duty to prepare and publish an action plan on"improving the energy efficiency of living accommodation".If amendment 222 is agreed to, section 48 of the bill will also cover the matter that is covered by section 179 of the 2006 act. It would be unnecessary to retain section 179 of the 2006 act if the same duty were to be incorporated into the Climate Change (Scotland) Bill and there could be confusion if we were to have legislated for the same purpose in two acts. Furthermore, the Government would potentially be required to produce two action plans on the same topic, because there would be separate duties to do so in two acts. Therefore, the repeal of section 179 remains necessary and I am unable to support amendment 232.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Patrick Harvie): Green
Good afternoon and welcome to the 16th meeting this year of the Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change Committee. I remind members and everyone else th...
The Minister for Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change (Stewart Stevenson): SNP
Thank you very much, convener.I am sure that members will appreciate the complicated nature of the bill's provisions on the "relevant body" and the "advisory...
The Convener: Green
Thank you. Now that that is on the record, we will proceed with our consideration of amendments. Members will be familiar with the process. I repeat what I h...
Section 48—Duty of Scottish Ministers to promote energy efficiency
The Convener: Green
Amendment 222, in the name of Iain Smith, is grouped with amendments 223, 252 and 232.
Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD): LD
I am pleased to open day 3 of the committee's stage 2 proceedings. I start by saying that in speaking to most of the amendments in my name this afternoon, I ...
The Convener: Green
I welcome the amendments from Iain Smith and the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee. The emphasis on energy efficiency in recent years has increased slowl...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): Lab
The committee is in a wee bit of difficulty, because it argued explicitly in its stage 1 report against targets for sectors and said that "indications" shoul...
Stewart Stevenson: SNP
I am content to support amendments 222 and 223. Amendment 222 would require the Scottish ministers to publish a plan that included provision for"improving th...
Iain Smith: LD
I welcome the minister's support of amendments 222 and 223. I also listened with care to his comments on amendment 232, which is, it is fair to say, a backst...
Amendment 222 agreed to.
Amendment 223 moved—Iain Smith—and agreed to.
The Convener: Green
Amendment 251, in the name of Sarah Boyack, is grouped with amendments 271 and 272.
Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab): Lab
The provisions in amendment 251 form part of the member's bill on which I have been working since 2005. At the outset of speaking to the amendments, I record...
Stewart Stevenson: SNP
I will consider all the amendments in the group, starting with amendment 271. I will then speak to amendment 272, after which I will come to amendment 251. I...
Sarah Boyack: Lab
If amendment 251 is agreed to, do you intend to lodge an amendment to change some of its terms, although you are happy with its spirit?
Stewart Stevenson: SNP
I do not require that the amendment be passed today to lodge an amendment at stage 3. I am in the committee's hands. However, I make the general comment that...
Sarah Boyack: Lab
My difficulty is that I was in with the bricks with the Scottish Government's original policy, so I have tried to word all my amendments on the basis of our ...
Stewart Stevenson: SNP
The word that is causing us difficulty is "operational". I wonder whether the member is confident that previous work addressed that issue in a robust legal w...
Sarah Boyack: Lab
That is useful.My main problem with not pressing the matter is that we have not made the progress on planning aspects in the past two years that ministers we...
The Convener: Green
The question is, that amendment 251 be agreed to. Are members agreed?
Members:
No.
The Convener: Green
There will be a division.
ForGordon, Charlie (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab)Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)McNulty, Des (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab)Peattie, Cathy (Falkirk East) (Lab)Ag...
The Convener: Green
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 4, Abstentions 0. Because, as I indicated earlier, the casting vote is for the status quo, which is the bill as...
Amendment 251 disagreed to.
Amendment 252 not moved.
The Convener: Green
Amendment 154, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 155, 155A, 156, 254, 239, 240, 161 and 270.
Stewart Stevenson: SNP
Amendments 154, 155, 156 and 161 seek to strengthen the bill by introducing a new obligation to produce and update an action plan on renewable heat. At aroun...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): SNP
Amendment 155A, in my name, seeks to increase the clarity of the renewable heat action plan and the scrutiny to which it is subject. The percentage of heat t...