Committee
Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999
06 Oct 1999 · S1 · Transport and the Environment Committee
Item of business
Concessionary Travel
I am interested in the notion that has been raised in the paper, and which you also mentioned, of a national scheme that would operate by force of law to make the operators carry certain groups of people and that would consider more creative ways of refunding or reimbursing the costs. I have an interest in that because people in the rural communities are concerned, particularly those who need access to transport because they must travel to hospitals or take up education opportunities—needs that are currently outwith the scope of the schemes. Could you say a wee bit more about that? Are there places where that has worked in practice or models that will allow us to examine in more detail how it might operate? Is that a good idea, which we should investigate further?
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
Moving on to the formal part of this morning's meeting, during our previous sessions we identified that we wished to consider concessionary travel schemes as...
Tim Stone (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities):
While the papers are being circulated, let me explain that Trond Haugen is the transportation manager for Fife Council—the kingdom of Fife—and that David Hun...
Trond Haugen (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities):
I will try to stick to the headings that you used, convener, the first of which was the need for concessionary travel schemes. The main purpose of local auth...
The Convener:
Lab
Thank you, Trond. The committee will now put questions to the COSLA team.
Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD):
LD
I have one question on the last point about assessing who should receive assistance and the level of the benefits. Are you saying that, in terms of introduci...
Trond Haugen:
That is my opinion.
Tavish Scott:
LD
How considerable would those research projects have to be to give us the information that we need to reach a considered opinion on the subject?
Trond Haugen:
We would have to discover the existing usage amongst the groups that we want to include. We would also need to divide those groups into various social catego...
Tavish Scott:
LD
How much of that information does COSLA have? As you are shaking your heads, I take it that COSLA does not have very much information.
Tim Stone:
No.
Trond Haugen:
COSLA does not have that much information.
The Convener:
Lab
Thank you, Tavish. Helen and Murray have some questions.
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
Trond mentioned franchising. Does he have a view on franchising versus the current deregulated system? I understand that franchising might provide a better c...
Trond Haugen:
There is no doubt that the deregulated regime has increased fares to a large extent. It is often difficult for local authorities to add services under the cu...
The Convener:
Lab
Feel free, David and Tim, to indicate if you want to speak.
Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
I have a number of wee queries. There were a couple of points on which, going through your presentation, I was not entirely clear. One of those, Trond, was o...
Trond Haugen:
The first point about tenders as opposed to concessions is that this is the thinking behind the Transport Act 1985: local authorities should tender for servi...
David Hunter (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities):
Mr Tosh's second point was about the complexity of regulations, as was mentioned in the presentation. One aspect can be illustrated by a bus route from Edinb...
Mr Tosh:
Con
I take the point about the increased variety causing difficulty, but where do the complexities pose a problem?
David Hunter:
With regard to the travel generated, one of the principles of concessionary travel is that the operator is supposed to be no better and no worse off than the...
Mr Tosh:
Con
If it is unproveable and unmeasurable, is there scope for us to examine it?
Trond Haugen:
A consultant has been appointed by the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions specifically to examine the issue. A draft report has already...
David Hunter:
My personal view is that a review of the literature, the modelling and so on would be justifiable. Because these are hypothetical questions, it would not be ...
Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab):
Lab
I am interested in the notion that has been raised in the paper, and which you also mentioned, of a national scheme that would operate by force of law to ma...
Trond Haugen:
Such schemes are not uncommon in continental countries, where operators are forced, through legislation, to carry certain groups of people. I am not sure how...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
So there are schemes that we could examine in more detail, to determine how they might be translated?
Trond Haugen:
There are definitely schemes that involve legislation.
Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I have three questions to ask. My first relates to the operation of such a scheme, and follows on from Helen's comments. Do you think that quality contracts ...
Tim Stone:
The issue of quality partnerships is separate from the notion of a national concessionary fare scheme. Quality partnerships concern local arrangements to de...
The Convener:
Lab
Robin, very briefly, do you have any questions?