Committee
Public Petitions Committee, 28 Jun 2005
28 Jun 2005 · S2 · Public Petitions Committee
Item of business
New Petitions
Rural Schools (Closure) (PE872)
I want to raise four points. The Executive appears to be placing pressure on councils and the way that they tackle the problem. I do not think for one minute that councils want to see the hearts and guts ripped out of their local communities. As far as I am concerned, people in local communities do not understand the cash nexus that is involved. We have to find out from the Government whether the route that it has taken to maintain the fabric of schools is leading to the effect that we are seeing on school premises around the country.Because practice varies, we must recognise that the Executive's guidelines do not fit easily in the circumstances. They are well crafted—they are general—but the way in which people interpret them results in a variety of approaches being taken that are sometimes negative, sometimes positive and sometimes more supportive of small communities than others. Often, the pressure on councils to cut the number of small schools to rationalise their expenditure is hidden. That point must be understood. Councils can raise a small amount of money themselves, but they are increasingly told by Government what they can do with it. They do not have discretion when spending it.I am aware of Highland Council's approach, which says, "There is a possibility that rural communities can revive." It is a great pity that there are examples from around the country of schools being closed on the basis of pupil numbers, when there are more children in the area. For example, the school on Vatersay in the Western Isles was closed when there were about six pupils, but 20 pupils from Vatersay now go to the three schools on nearby Barra. It is now suggested that the schools on Barra should be rationalised and that the third one is not needed because the fabric is available in other places. The closure of schools has a fundamental social effect and cuts down communities' ability to live. Therefore, the guidelines must take into account, much more than they do at present, the conditions in different parts of the country.I agree with other members that the Environment and Rural Development Committee and the Enterprise and Culture Committee ought to consider the matter. The Environment and Rural Development Committee's review of rural areas has shown the commitment to rural development from Governments of other countries. In Finland, which has one of the best rural policies in Europe, the right to live in rural areas is enshrined as part of the fabric of the nation. If people have a right to live in an area, they have a right to access services there. If the Executive and the Parliament believe in the rural areas of Scotland, they must consider that idea seriously and take into account the education aspect, which is a key component. We need to take a different attitude to the way in which finance is levered in to support schooling. We must take into account the overall argument that small schools are often the best ones.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
Our next petition is PE872, which was lodged by Alexander Longmuir on behalf of the Arbirlot parents group. It calls on the Scottish Parliament"to urge the S...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
Petition PE872, which seeks a presumption against the closure of rural schools, was lodged as a result of the proposed closure of schools in the north-east. ...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
What he said. I agree with everything that Richard Baker has just said, but I will add a couple of comments of my own.I, too, have had the opportunity to spe...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I compliment the Public Petitions Committee, although I am not sure whether it will help my case to do so. I will put matters in context. Two petitions have ...
Mrs Margaret Ewing (Moray) (SNP):
SNP
It is difficult to follow three excellent speeches about the issues in the petition. As the committee knows, I previously brought a petition to Parliament fr...
The Convener:
Lab
Thank you very much for your contributions, which will help the committee in its consideration of the petition.I will respond to a couple of the comments tha...
Rosie Kane:
SSP
Six or seven years ago in Glasgow we experienced first hand many school closures. We are now aware of the negative impact that such closures have on pupils, ...
The Convener:
Lab
That is a valid point and we can ask about that general issue in our letter to the Executive.
Mike Watson:
Ind
I will make a general point first. This morning, we received a letter from the chairperson of the Arbirlot parents group, which expresses her concern—in fact...
Mrs Ewing:
SNP
No.
Mike Watson:
Ind
Are they not? I apologise. Individual members on those councils should be following those party policies. The presumption is important. Another important iss...
The Convener:
Lab
I take on board that point and your earlier point, but the rules of the Parliament are that if an MSP wishes to come along to another committee they are free...
Mike Watson:
Ind
It was not a criticism of you, convener.
The Convener:
Lab
I know that, but it is worth putting on the record that this committee is affected by the situation probably more than any other, but we just have to deal wi...
Rob Gibson:
SNP
I want to raise four points. The Executive appears to be placing pressure on councils and the way that they tackle the problem. I do not think for one minute...
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
I was going to ask members some questions, but, in the light of Rob Gibson's comments, I will say something slightly different first.
The Convener:
Lab
Please, do not ask members questions; we are not having a question and answer session.
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
Okay. I will try to be brief and encapsulate my points.I support your comments to Margaret Ewing, convener—councillors are not prevented from participating i...
The Convener:
Lab
The Executive should be asked those questions, too. I do not want to pre-empt what John Scott will say, but that is the direction in which I think we will ha...
John Scott:
Con
I endorse Jackie Baillie's comments. I refer Margaret Ewing to a letter that we received from Tavish Scott some time ago that outlined the details of guideli...
Helen Eadie:
Lab
We should write to the Scottish Executive to ask how it has monitored all the criteria that have been put in place. If there are inconsistencies, the ministe...
The Convener:
Lab
We agree that we have to take up the issue with the Executive. We have a host of questions to ask. I will formulate a letter to the minister that will be acc...
Rob Gibson:
SNP
Can we send it to the Enterprise and Culture Committee as well?
The Convener:
Lab
If you think that that is appropriate. I am not so sure that it is. If the Education Committee and the Environment and Rural Development Committee are consid...
Rob Gibson:
SNP
Okay.
The Convener:
Lab
I thank everyone for their contributions.
Meeting suspended.
On resuming—