Committee
Public Petitions Committee, 28 Jun 2005
28 Jun 2005 · S2 · Public Petitions Committee
Item of business
New Petitions
Rural Schools (Closure) (PE872)
I compliment the Public Petitions Committee, although I am not sure whether it will help my case to do so. I will put matters in context. Two petitions have been referred to, but a petition concerning Argyll and Bute Council was lodged some time back calling for new guidance on rural schools to be produced. When a petition was lodged last year, there could have been a temptation to say, "No, we have already addressed that issue. Let's let it go." I thank the committee for not doing so. The petition was referred to the Education Committee, of which I am a member. When we studied it, we realised that the guidance that should have been issued after the first petition had not been issued. New guidance was produced as a result of the second referral, which my colleagues have talked about. Perhaps it reflects on the Parliament that sometimes when members start things off, they do not necessarily complete them and close the loop. We should ask whether matters are followed through. As a result, there is a strong case for considering the petition.It is clear that new guidance was produced, but the general concern is that that guidance is not necessarily delivering what rural communities want. The sheer scale of the proposals is enough to give us pause for thought. Between 50 and 75 schools in Scotland are under threat of closure in areas such as Moray, Aberdeenshire, the Borders and Fife. I was involved in campaigns in Midlothian, for example, last year. There is a case for people in Scotland to reflect on whether we want to sustain rural schools or whether we are happy for the new estates management review to result in new capital spend throughout Scotland—which is welcome—but at the price of closing rural schools and ripping out the heart of many communities.The petition calls for a legislative presumption against the closure of rural schools. That would not mean that no rural school would ever close, but it would mean that there must be strong arguments to pursue closure. That is where we run into problems. The educational case is up front in the current guidance, which resulted from a previous petition. In recent days, I have spoken to Angus Council, which is involved in one case. The fact that that council recognises and has said to me that the educational case must be one of the prime arguments when the closure of rural schools is being considered is interesting.I have a prop that I am not sure that I am allowed to use. It is a chart of Scotland that shows that the 50 to 75 proposed closures are down the east coast. From correspondence that I have had, I suspect that, in the Western Isles and other areas, the matter may be up for review.The issue has a national perspective. I do not blame councils for seeking best value and looking after their finances in order to invest. However, if the price of that has implications across Scotland, we have to take stock. I make a plea to the committee. The success of what has happened so far is due to the fact that we have paused and reflected on what has happened previously. The sheer scale of this makes us think that, although we have the new guidance, we may need to do something further. The minister may not be mindful of it yet, but the sheer scale of what is happening—despite the new guidance—might give us pause for reflection, and that is an opportunity that we should embrace.I completely support Alex Johnstone's point about rural development. When the previous petition was heard, the Rural Development Committee had a full agenda. This is both an educational and a rural development issue, but the rural development perspective has not been properly considered by the Parliament's committees.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
Our next petition is PE872, which was lodged by Alexander Longmuir on behalf of the Arbirlot parents group. It calls on the Scottish Parliament"to urge the S...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
Petition PE872, which seeks a presumption against the closure of rural schools, was lodged as a result of the proposed closure of schools in the north-east. ...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
What he said. I agree with everything that Richard Baker has just said, but I will add a couple of comments of my own.I, too, have had the opportunity to spe...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I compliment the Public Petitions Committee, although I am not sure whether it will help my case to do so. I will put matters in context. Two petitions have ...
Mrs Margaret Ewing (Moray) (SNP):
SNP
It is difficult to follow three excellent speeches about the issues in the petition. As the committee knows, I previously brought a petition to Parliament fr...
The Convener:
Lab
Thank you very much for your contributions, which will help the committee in its consideration of the petition.I will respond to a couple of the comments tha...
Rosie Kane:
SSP
Six or seven years ago in Glasgow we experienced first hand many school closures. We are now aware of the negative impact that such closures have on pupils, ...
The Convener:
Lab
That is a valid point and we can ask about that general issue in our letter to the Executive.
Mike Watson:
Ind
I will make a general point first. This morning, we received a letter from the chairperson of the Arbirlot parents group, which expresses her concern—in fact...
Mrs Ewing:
SNP
No.
Mike Watson:
Ind
Are they not? I apologise. Individual members on those councils should be following those party policies. The presumption is important. Another important iss...
The Convener:
Lab
I take on board that point and your earlier point, but the rules of the Parliament are that if an MSP wishes to come along to another committee they are free...
Mike Watson:
Ind
It was not a criticism of you, convener.
The Convener:
Lab
I know that, but it is worth putting on the record that this committee is affected by the situation probably more than any other, but we just have to deal wi...
Rob Gibson:
SNP
I want to raise four points. The Executive appears to be placing pressure on councils and the way that they tackle the problem. I do not think for one minute...
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
I was going to ask members some questions, but, in the light of Rob Gibson's comments, I will say something slightly different first.
The Convener:
Lab
Please, do not ask members questions; we are not having a question and answer session.
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
Okay. I will try to be brief and encapsulate my points.I support your comments to Margaret Ewing, convener—councillors are not prevented from participating i...
The Convener:
Lab
The Executive should be asked those questions, too. I do not want to pre-empt what John Scott will say, but that is the direction in which I think we will ha...
John Scott:
Con
I endorse Jackie Baillie's comments. I refer Margaret Ewing to a letter that we received from Tavish Scott some time ago that outlined the details of guideli...
Helen Eadie:
Lab
We should write to the Scottish Executive to ask how it has monitored all the criteria that have been put in place. If there are inconsistencies, the ministe...
The Convener:
Lab
We agree that we have to take up the issue with the Executive. We have a host of questions to ask. I will formulate a letter to the minister that will be acc...
Rob Gibson:
SNP
Can we send it to the Enterprise and Culture Committee as well?
The Convener:
Lab
If you think that that is appropriate. I am not so sure that it is. If the Education Committee and the Environment and Rural Development Committee are consid...
Rob Gibson:
SNP
Okay.
The Convener:
Lab
I thank everyone for their contributions.
Meeting suspended.
On resuming—