Committee
Public Petitions Committee, 22 Jun 2005
22 Jun 2005 · S2 · Public Petitions Committee
Item of business
New Petitions
Children's Services (Special Needs) (PE853)
Mike Rumbles is not here to answer questions. Sandra, I could not agree with you more that the problem is general. The issue with which we are dealing is to do with whether the guidelines offer protection to communities for their schools and the services that are provided. We have guidelines on that, but if they are breached in this decision or if the criteria for permission to close schools are breached, that is something that the Scottish Executive will have to look at; it is not for us to judge whether that has been the case. That is not the role of this committee. We have to ensure that the issues that are raised in the petition are properly addressed in terms of what we can do by asking the Executive or the Parliament to address them. I was on the Equal Opportunities Committee when we looked at the Standards in Scotland's Schools etc Bill and we discussed mainstreaming. Mainstreaming was introduced for good reasons: far too many young people who could easily have gone into mainstream education were put into special educational needs schools. The bill moved the emphasis away from a presumption against a young person going into mainstream school towards ensuring that the young person's needs were taken into account and that they were supported in mainstream schools if possible. If that is not what is happening in this case, we have to find out whether the guidelines are tight enough to offer that type of protection. We have to write to the Scottish Executive.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
The next petition is PE853, which is on services for children with special needs. The petition, which is by Ken Venters, on behalf of the Carronhill action t...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
The background to the issue is that Aberdeenshire Council is working to upgrade and improve its whole school estate and has come up with options that could i...
The Convener:
Lab
For clarity, I point out that I referred to rural schools in connection with PE725 and PE753, which were specifically about rural schools, but which led us t...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
No. People have criticised consultations in the past because a council or health board has come up with a plan and then consulted on it. Aberdeenshire Counci...
Mike Watson:
Ind
You said that various options have been offered. Is the status quo one of those options?
Mike Rumbles:
LD
No. There is nothing wrong with the school's structure, but it needs to be refurbished. As a result, one of the options is to keep the whole school estate wh...
Mike Watson:
Ind
And I presume that, although the school is in Stonehaven, pupils from a much wider area attend it.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
Indeed they do.
Mike Watson:
Ind
If the school were to be closed, what would be the nearest available school for the parents of those children?
Mike Rumbles:
LD
The other option is St Andrew's school in Inverurie. However, as it is in the same education authority area, I suppose that we could say that it is also unde...
Mike Watson:
Ind
If St Andrew's school closes, what would be the option for the Aberdeenshire area?
Mike Rumbles:
LD
The difference between St Andrew's school, which is in Nora Radcliffe's constituency, and Carronhill School is that St Andrew's real estate is just not up to...
Mike Watson:
Ind
So is Aberdeenshire Council proposing to send the children into mainstream education?
Mike Rumbles:
LD
You must remember that this is an option, not a proposal.
Mike Watson:
Ind
Well—
Mike Rumbles:
LD
No, but seriously—
Mike Watson:
Ind
If the status quo is not an option, there must be something else.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
The other option is to build special units that are attached to mainstream schools.
The Convener:
Lab
Before I bring in Jackie Baillie, I should point out that we are here to discuss the petition, not to interrogate Mike Rumbles.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
I am just here to support the petition.
The Convener:
Lab
I should also point out that we have to be careful here. After all, we do not judge a local authority's decisions. Mike Rumbles has told us that there is an ...
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
That leaves me lots to say, convener. You cannot shut me up quite so easily.This process, which is going on to different degrees in different local authoriti...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
Aberdeenshire Council's consultation, which is on the whole plan for Aberdeenshire schools, has focused on this matter, particularly in my constituency, beca...
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
I do not think that that is the Executive's policy; such measures are proposed only when they are suitable for the child. However, let us not debate that her...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
I do not think that the school is at 80 per cent capacity. I do not want to mislead the committee because I do not have that information, but the attractions...
Ms White:
SNP
As I said at the beginning of the meeting, I think that the kids and their parents should have given us evidence. Mike Rumbles is right—the problem is not ju...
The Convener:
Lab
So why did we need to hear from a specific school to understand that?
Ms White:
SNP
Specific people lodged the petition, but it does not ask for action to be taken on Carronhill School. I do not want to labour that point, but I raised the ma...
The Convener:
Lab
Mike Rumbles is not here to answer questions. Sandra, I could not agree with you more that the problem is general. The issue with which we are dealing is to ...
John Scott:
Con
The petition calls on the Parliament"to urge the Scottish Executive to introduce legislation requiring all proposals which relate to the closure or alteratio...