Committee
Procedures Committee, 23 Jan 2007
23 Jan 2007 · S2 · Procedures Committee
Item of business
Electronic Voting
As you are aware, convener, a particularly diligent member of the parliamentary press corps read the paper on this subject in advance and beat a path to my door. The comments that I made to him are worthy of repetition today.It is cause for concern that the electronic voting system lacks the immediacy and openness that is currently experienced by those who observe the work of committees at first hand. I have sat on committees at which—especially at stage 2 of a bill—members have argued one way but then voted another. If members choose to do that, they should be exposed instantly. Although, as the paper makes clear, it is important that we remember that minutes will be published and that the results of electronic votes will be available the following day, that would in my view be a step backwards in terms of openness. The arguments that have been put—in some detail—highlight areas in which electronic voting in a committee may be appropriate, but I would be concerned if electronic voting were to become the norm.Following Karen Gillon's question, I want to ask whether—given that electronic voting has been possible as an experiment during the process of one bill on one committee and the procedures and the necessary functions already exist—we need to spend money on additional software in order to be able to repeat the exercise.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
LD
The third item on our agenda is electronic voting in committees. Paper PR/S2/07/1/3 sets out a brief history. At some point, Parliament agreed to have a tria...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
I might not have understood the procedures correctly. There was an excessive number of amendments for the Planning etc (Scotland) Bill. My understanding was ...
The Convener:
LD
I cannot honestly remember how much procedure was necessary to enable the Communities Committee to carry out its voting in that way. Perhaps the clerk could ...
Andrew Mylne:
What the deputy convener says is correct. Under the current rules, committees are required to vote by a show of hands unless Parliament has directed otherwis...
Alex Johnstone:
Con
As you are aware, convener, a particularly diligent member of the parliamentary press corps read the paper on this subject in advance and beat a path to my d...
Chris Ballance:
Green
The paper talks about the possibility of flagging up the votes on the public television screens at the same time as the convener gets them. That would certai...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Has one committee room already been set up for electronic voting?
Chris Ballance:
Green
It has.
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Why, in that case, do we need to set up any more?
Chris Ballance:
Green
I would be happy for us just to change the rules and to instruct Parliament's information technology department to look into the possibility of getting the v...
The Convener:
LD
There was some discussion on that point at the Conveners Group. I did not follow it fully, but it seems that although the pilot scheme was managed without gr...
Chris Ballance:
Green
Page 6 of the paper tells us that the pilot scheme cost £3,744 and that it would cost an extra £6,700 to equip a further two committee rooms. We already have...
Kate Maclean:
Lab
Paragraph 10 on page 4 of paper PR/S2/07/1/3 states that the software that was used to electronically transmit voting records to the official report from the...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
If the equipment in one committee room is up and running—
Kate Maclean:
Lab
The software is not.
Karen Gillon:
Lab
The paper says that it is.
The Convener:
LD
I was trying to remember what paragraph 10 says. I am obliged to Kate Maclean for referring to it.
Kate Maclean:
Lab
Paragraph 10 states:"given the short term nature of the pilot, it was agreed that this work should not be carried out and a method of transmitting the result...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
For me, the first question is whether, in principle, I want more electronic voting in committees. My answer is that I do not. A huge amount is gained from op...
Alex Johnstone:
Con
There is another issue to do with members raising their hands to vote, which arises from my experience. I sat through a stage 2 committee debate—I think Kare...
Richard Baker:
Lab
That takes us back to the point that Chris Ballance made about the software.Karen Gillon said that the software would have to be changed so that people could...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Paragraph 10 mentions that the software could not transmit vote details electronically to the official report. However, given that we have official report st...
The Convener:
LD
The committee clerk has ingeniously suggested that members could vote in both ways—electronically and manually—at the same time.
Alex Johnstone:
Con
Unfortunately, that would not fit in with our commitment to ensure that disabled people are catered for. People who could not do both things at once would be...
The Convener:
LD
I draw members' attention to the section of the paper that outlines the benefits of electronic voting. Paragraph 15 claims that electronic voting resulted in...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
As the Procedures Committee, we have the responsibility to decide on the procedures and rules under which Parliament operates.The founding principles of the ...
Alex Johnstone:
Con
Interestingly, the electronic voting system is open to human error. Recently, there have been a significant number of cases in the chamber where, during a vo...
The Convener:
LD
Do we want a complete clarification of the subject in order to understand the issues of software, cost and so on, or are we agreed that this is a matter of p...
Richard Baker:
Lab
My preference would be for us to say that committees should take the decision and that we need no more than one committee room to be geared up for electronic...
The Convener:
LD
Right. I suggest that we go through the paper bit by bit. Is it the committee's general view that it is quite enough for one committee room to be fitted up f...