Hansard

The Convener: Lab

For agenda item 2, we will hear further evidence on the Prostitution Tolerance Zones (Scotland) Bill. I welcome back Margo MacDonald MSP, who is the member i...

Ruth Morgan Thomas (SCOT-PEP):

I thank the committee for inviting us to give evidence again. Since we last gave evidence, the situation in Edinburgh has changed—I think that it has become ...

Iain Smith: LD

Thank you for that full presentation. In asking this question, I am not disputing any of the information that you have given on what happened before or after...

Ruth Morgan Thomas:

I believe that the demise of the Edinburgh area was due partly to the lack of a legal framework. An area was identified and the women were relocated, but the...

Iain Smith: LD

Thank you for that explanation. I am not going to get into legal arguments about whether or not the zone would have been successful—I think that that is our ...

Ruth Morgan Thomas:

I believe that there is. I am not saying that it would be easy or that people would welcome a zone in their back yards, but if there was a real commitment fr...

Tommy Sheridan: SSP

I would like to ask a couple of questions that come at the whole issue from the two major standpoints that have emerged so far. The first is on the practical...

Ruth Morgan Thomas:

I am very confident in the evidence's reliability because it comes from sex workers themselves. The reports of the attacks are collected during our night-tim...

George Lewis (SCOT-PEP):

Although we have faith in our recording system, it would not surprise us if the actual figures were much higher than the figures that we have recorded. As Ru...

Tommy Sheridan: SSP

I wanted to hear your opinion for the record because, when I asked the minister and the head of the expert group about the figures, neither was able to chall...

Ruth Morgan Thomas:

In an ideal society, I would certainly want prostitution to be eradicated—I do not think that anyone could sit here and say that they would want prostitution...

Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): Lab

It is fascinating to hear your arguments. My eyes have been opened to many issues through considering the bill. In the previous evidence-taking session, much...

Ruth Morgan Thomas:

There is real violence and harm in prostitution as it currently operates in the United Kingdom legal framework as well as in the legal frameworks of many oth...

Michael McMahon: Lab

That brings me on to another point about self-determination. In considering this matter in some detail, I came across a 2003 report, "10 Reasons for Not Lega...

Ruth Morgan Thomas:

I do not believe that we would be. It interests me that people always claim that what sex workers say is orchestrated by the sex industry or by businessmen. ...

Michael McMahon: Lab

We are talking about exploitation and power relationships in society. Marianne Eriksson, of the European Parliament's Committee on Women's Rights and Equal O...

Ruth Morgan Thomas:

I have read it.

Michael McMahon: Lab

She said:"EU Member States have capitulated and, instead of fighting against such exploitation of human beings, have accepted the prevailing situation and, t...

Ruth Morgan Thomas:

The issue is complex. You refer constantly to legalisation. Neither I, personally, nor SCOT-PEP supports the legalisation of the sex industry. That is differ...

Michael McMahon: Lab

We are being asked to pass a bill that would regulate prostitution. I do not think that the two issues can be separated. The only reason why we are discussin...

Ruth Morgan Thomas:

The issue of regulation is about decriminalising two offences, the existence of which phenomenally increases the vulnerability of street-based sex workers.

Michael McMahon: Lab

I am not convinced.

Mr Welsh: SNP

This has been a thoughtful and philosophical session.

Ruth Morgan Thomas:

Much more so than the previous meeting was.

Mr Welsh: SNP

It is useful that it has been so, but I would like to ask about a more factual matter. As you will be aware, following the stage 1 debate on the previous bil...

Ruth Morgan Thomas:

Yes, we have facilitated members of that group to come out on our night-time service provision, because the first phase of its work involves looking solely a...

Mr Welsh: SNP

In your work in the unofficial tolerance zone, how successful were your efforts to support street prostitutes who wished to leave the sex industry and how do...

Ruth Morgan Thomas:

We had funding from Scottish Enterprise for two and half years for our new futures project. As I said, 10 per cent of all the sex workers with whom we had co...

George Lewis:

One of our problems in gaining continuing funding for our new futures scheme was that we were unable to demonstrate that we had been successful. However, as ...

Mr Welsh: SNP

You lay great store on trust and on the relationships that are built up and you are calling for more targeted support services, but such services are, in man...