Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
13
Parties on record
2,355,091
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,355,091 contributions in session S6, 16 Apr 2026 – 16 May 2026. Latest 30 days: 148. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 14 May 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Committee

Local Government and Transport Committee, 23 Mar 2004

23 Mar 2004 · S2 · Local Government and Transport Committee
Item of business
Prostitution Tolerance Zones (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Ruth Morgan Thomas (SCOT-PEP): Watch on SPTV
I thank the committee for inviting us to give evidence again. Since we last gave evidence, the situation in Edinburgh has changed—I think that it has become critical.For the past 15 years, I have been involved in SCOT-PEP and in developing services for sex workers within a human and civil rights framework. Our focus is on health promotion and the protection and empowerment of sex workers.There are diverse feminist and ideological perspectives and political stances on sex work, but regardless of all the opinions, what remains undeniable is the vulnerability of sex workers in today's society and their social exclusion through discrimination, stigmatisation and inequality, given their lack of access to services, support and employment rights. The most vulnerable are undoubtedly those who are involved in street prostitution.No Government or law enforcement strategy has managed to eradicate prostitution or the sex industry. The criminalisation of the selling of sex in Iraq resulted in sex workers being publicly executed, but individuals still sold sex there. The criminalisation of buying sex in Sweden has driven the sex industry underground and has made sex workers more vulnerable. Legalised brothels in Nevada in the USA have not eradicated street prostitution in that state.The selling and buying of sex are not illegal in Scotland, but strategies that enable sex workers to work collectively and therefore more safely are illegal. That illegality excludes sex workers from the protection that is offered to other workers through employment and health and safety legislation.Zero tolerance of the sex industry simply forces prostitution underground and disperses sex workers. It has no significant impact on the level of prostitution, but it has a significant impact on the health, safety and well-being of sex workers. It opens up opportunities for clients and organised crime to exploit and abuse sex workers. In every city that has implemented zero tolerance or had sporadic crackdowns on street prostitution, sex workers have reported that the level of attacks on them increased significantly while their ability to access support and services decreased.When domestic abuse became widely recognised, we did not adopt a zero tolerance policy towards the institution of marriage or relationships. We sought to combat abuse and violence in that institution and to reduce individuals' vulnerability to such abuse by creating an environment in which our society would not tolerate abuse and violence and by providing support services that are appropriate to the self-identified needs and aspirations of those who are affected by vulnerability to abuse.It is necessary to understand and address the contextual issues, the complexities of the concepts of vulnerability and abuse and the constraints on the real choices that sex workers and drug users can make in today's society. No moral or ideological perspectives should be allowed to increase further the vulnerability and social exclusion of sex workers.The sex-worker community is not a single entity and street-based sex workers are not a homogeneous group. They come from diverse backgrounds and have differing interests and ideas, as well as different life experiences and current life circumstances. There are diverse reasons for entering and remaining in prostitution that cover a continuum that runs from coercion to choice within the constraints of the current economic and employment context of our society. In a social inclusion framework, one must respect the diversity of views that are expressed by sex workers, including those who assert their right to self-determine and who choose to engage in sex work, as well as those who wish to leave the sex industry.A legislative framework is required to enable us to work to minimise the harmful effects, instead of our simply ignoring or condemning sex workers, their clients or the sex industry. That framework should tackle the real and tragic harm that street-based sex workers face daily. Such legislation should enable each area to implement—on a what-works, evidenced basis—policies and strategies that respond to local conditions in order to reduce sex workers' vulnerability, increase their access to support and services and combat involuntary sex work.It is estimated that between 800 and 1,000 women work in the sex industry in Edinburgh each year and that between 10 per cent and 15 per cent engage in street prostitution. In 2003, SCOT-PEP had contact with 126 street-based sex workers. In the first nine months of the current financial year, contact was made with 117 street-based sex workers, of whom 44 were new to street prostitution.The situation and vulnerability of street-based sex workers in Edinburgh have deteriorated further since last we gave evidence. We will highlight particular concerns that we believe relate directly to the loss of the designated area, in which women worked collectively to minimise criminality such as that which is currently encroaching on street prostitution in Leith.Since we last gave evidence, a significant increase in violence has taken place. That is outlined in the supplementary written evidence that we submitted earlier this month. The ugly mug briefing paper shows a 1,000 per cent increase in attacks. That represents a 2,000 per cent increase in risk for each woman since we lost our designated area two years ago. SCOT-PEP was one of the first sex-work projects in the UK to promote an ugly mug scheme, in the early 1990s. The scheme was set up as an early warning system against potentially violent clients; it enabled sex workers to try to prevent further attacks from the same individuals.SCOT-PEP's policy has always been to share information with the police and to encourage and support sex workers to report crimes against them. That policy has not changed in the 15 years during which we have operated. However, co-operation and trust between the women and the police have continued to deteriorate, as women are now regularly cautioned and charged by the police and regard the police as their persecutors, rather than their protectors.Drug dependency among local street-based sex workers has increased from under 50 per cent to more than 95 per cent and the vast majority of users now inject. That has happened since the loss of the zone. That dramatic increase in drug dependency among street-based sex workers occurred well after the re-emergence of heroin use was being reported in Edinburgh, so I do not think that the two can necessarily be linked. Drug dealers have encroached—that problem had been minimised when the designated area was in operation. During the past year, drug pimping has emerged, by which I mean the coercion of women into street prostitution because of their drug dependency. Again, that was not happening when we had a designated area.We have also witnessed the introduction of protection racketeers and the re-emergence of pimping in Edinburgh's street prostitution scene, which—again—had been minimised during the operation of the designated area. During the past two years, we have received a significant number of reports of under-16s being involved in street prostitution, whereas during the last two years in which the zone operated, no under-16s were involved in street prostitution in the city.Some people assert that the operation of a zone attracts criminality and minors to the area, but that is not substantiated by Edinburgh's 15 years of experience of operating a designated area. Such criminality and child sexual abuse through prostitution has re-emerged only since we lost the designated area. The continuing dispersal of street prostitution over a significant part of north Leith has removed the police's ability to manage and control the situation effectively, despite the on-going high levels of police activity in the area. Women continue not to report the presence of undesirables or crimes against them, as the hostile relationships with the police continue. We have been unable to re-establish the relationship of confidence and trust that once existed.The on-going dispersal and mobility of street-based workers has had a significant impact on women's ability to access services and support, and on SCOT-PEP's ability to provide the level and quality of support that we used to offer and to identify women when they enter street prostitution, when they are at their most vulnerable. The forthcoming introduction of antisocial behaviour orders against street-based sex workers in Edinburgh could further restrict street-based sex workers' access to the harm reduction and new futures services and support that the SCOT-PEP mobile unit provides. The use of antisocial behaviour orders might further disperse street prostitution across Leith and the rest of the city.The existence of a zone in which soliciting and loitering were decriminalised would enable street-based sex workers to work collectively and to protect one another, and it would remove the need for the partners, minders and protection racketeers to be present. A zone would reintroduce the community barriers to the involvement of minors in street prostitution, drug dealing, pimping and other criminality. It would rebuild the trust and confidence that sex workers require if they are to report crimes against them and it would enable the police to re-establish control and tackle criminality. It would prevent children from being introduced into street prostitution. Finally, it would create real opportunities to target harm reduction and new futures services and support effectively.The designation of a geographic area as a zone within which soliciting and loitering were decriminalised would not present a total solution to the problems around the social phenomenon of prostitution, but it would create opportunities to engage with and protect street-based sex workers. Such opportunities cannot easily be found when street prostitution is dispersed and driven underground. The situation of street-based sex workers in Edinburgh is unacceptable in today's society.The creation of a zone does not in itself represent a condoning of prostitution: rather, it represents acceptance—for better or worse—that prostitution is a part of our world today, and it represents a choice to work to minimise harmful effects on sex workers and the local community.During the period of deterioration in the street-prostitution environment in Edinburgh, SCOT-PEP's services to street-based sex workers have had to be significantly reduced because of the loss over the past two years of new futures project funding, of funding for our work with young people who are involved in prostitution, and of funding for the volunteer development project.We previously provided a service to street-based sex workers five nights a week. In 2002, that was reduced to four nights, in 2003 it was reduced to three nights and, as of 1 March, it has been reduced to two nights. We previously provided five days of office-based support to indoor and street-based sex workers, which was reduced to four days in 2002. As of 1 March this year, that has had to be reduced to two days. Previously, we provided four days provision of our establishment outreach service, which is for indoor sex workers. In 2002 we had to reduce that to three days. As of 1 March, it has been reduced to two days.That is a stark picture for women as vulnerable as are the women in our city today. Each reduction in service provision has led to an outcry from street-based and indoor sex workers, and in a reduction in the level of support that SCOT-PEP is able to provide. With such limited resources, work has been reduced to an Elastoplast service for Edinburgh's sex workers, consisting of drug and sexual harm reduction and crisis intervention, which allows minimal personal development work to be undertaken with indoor or street-based sex workers to enable them to explore their options and routes out of prostitution.It remains SCOT-PEP's belief that to tackle the social phenomenon of prostitution and to protect the health and safety of all sex workers, it is essential that three strands be pursued to combat the nuisance. They relate to the exploitation, the violence and criminality and the abuse that can be associated with the sex industry. The first strand is the prevention of involuntary sex work, rather than of prostitution itself. To remove involuntary sex work, it is essential that poverty, drug use, homelessness and childhood abuse and neglect be tackled. While such phenomena remain within our society, individuals will become involved in prostitution either to address their needs or as a result of coercion.In addition, holistic sex education that focuses on how young people perceive their bodies is essential in order to raise awareness and to prevent all forms of sexual exploitation that occur within and outwith the sex industry. However, such education programmes should recognise that children of sex workers will take part in those programmes. Such education should not seek to stigmatise further or to marginalise sex workers or their families. Instead, it should address the real and tragic harm and danger that is associated with sexual exploitation through prostitution, unwanted sexual relations and unsafe sexual health behaviours.The second strand is harm reduction. Creating an environment in which sex workers can be empowered to work together, and within which self-worth, dignity and respect are nurtured, has a significant impact on violence against, and exploitation of, sex workers. The provision of support and services that reduce the vulnerability and marginalisation of sex workers, while they promote respect for self and others within a non-judgmental environment, has been shown in Edinburgh to reduce the violence, exploitation and exclusion that sex workers experience. That was achieved through a multi-agency approach, with partnership working being a fundamental component of the person-centred approach that was taken in Edinburgh.The designated area was an essential component of the successful harm-reduction strategy that operated in Edinburgh, which succeeded in preventing HIV infections within the sex industry in our city at a time when Edinburgh was seen as being the AIDS capital of Europe, which is a fact that too often we forget. In Edinburgh it is now difficult to see how we can ensure that the harm that has come to those who are involved in the sex industry since the loss of the zone can be reduced without a clear legal framework that enables the city to re-establish a designated area.The third strand is that we should provide support for people to move on from the sex industry. SCOT-PEP has always been committed to supporting those who wish to move on from the sex industry, and to the need to create multiple layers of opportunities and support that enable that. However, we recognise that not all sex workers wish, or are able, to move on immediately. The SCOT-PEP new futures project was accessed by 10 per cent of the sex workers who were in contact with the organisation each year. It provided support to 96 individuals, only 19 of whom remain in contact with SCOT-PEP for support in respect of on-going involvement in the sex industry today.We believe that sex workers must be consulted on the development, implementation and evaluation of any and all strategies that are considered for dealing with the social phenomenon of prostitution. Sex workers should not be perceived as criminals, targets for public health interventions or victims to be assisted, but as citizens with the right to determine their own needs and aspirations.Given that no Government or law-enforcement strategy has managed to eradicate prostitution, let us not abandon those who work in the sex industry today—and those who will work in it next week, next year and into the next decade—as the women of Edinburgh were abandoned in December 2001. We urge the committee to support Margo MacDonald's bill, to address the urgent needs of street-based sex workers in Edinburgh, and to send a message to society that we care about sex workers and about reducing their vulnerability.The committee should note the motion that was moved by the International Union of Sex Workers and the London entertainment branch of the GMB and that was passed at last year's Trades Union Congress women's conference. The motion reads:"The criminalization of many aspects of sex work is responsible for the lack of employment rights,"casualisation,"widespread violence, exploitation and abuse in the global and, for some, profitable sex industry. Legislation does not provide adequate protection for sex workers. Conference recognises that sex workers are a vulnerable group, who need the voice that only the trade union movement can provide. Conference believes that workers in the industry should have:1. Full legal protection from harassment, violence, threats, intimidation and theft2. The consideration of the decriminalization of prostitution with a view to full and proper regulation in the interests of the workforce and the communities in which the industry operates3. The right to the full range of employment, health and safety and contractual rights4. The right to pursue alternative employment with support and assistance provided5. The right to full, voluntary access to all NHS services, including … medical advice."

In the same item of business

The Convener: Lab
For agenda item 2, we will hear further evidence on the Prostitution Tolerance Zones (Scotland) Bill. I welcome back Margo MacDonald MSP, who is the member i...
Ruth Morgan Thomas (SCOT-PEP):
I thank the committee for inviting us to give evidence again. Since we last gave evidence, the situation in Edinburgh has changed—I think that it has become ...
Iain Smith: LD
Thank you for that full presentation. In asking this question, I am not disputing any of the information that you have given on what happened before or after...
Ruth Morgan Thomas:
I believe that the demise of the Edinburgh area was due partly to the lack of a legal framework. An area was identified and the women were relocated, but the...
Iain Smith: LD
Thank you for that explanation. I am not going to get into legal arguments about whether or not the zone would have been successful—I think that that is our ...
Ruth Morgan Thomas:
I believe that there is. I am not saying that it would be easy or that people would welcome a zone in their back yards, but if there was a real commitment fr...
Tommy Sheridan: SSP
I would like to ask a couple of questions that come at the whole issue from the two major standpoints that have emerged so far. The first is on the practical...
Ruth Morgan Thomas:
I am very confident in the evidence's reliability because it comes from sex workers themselves. The reports of the attacks are collected during our night-tim...
George Lewis (SCOT-PEP):
Although we have faith in our recording system, it would not surprise us if the actual figures were much higher than the figures that we have recorded. As Ru...
Tommy Sheridan: SSP
I wanted to hear your opinion for the record because, when I asked the minister and the head of the expert group about the figures, neither was able to chall...
Ruth Morgan Thomas:
In an ideal society, I would certainly want prostitution to be eradicated—I do not think that anyone could sit here and say that they would want prostitution...
Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): Lab
It is fascinating to hear your arguments. My eyes have been opened to many issues through considering the bill. In the previous evidence-taking session, much...
Ruth Morgan Thomas:
There is real violence and harm in prostitution as it currently operates in the United Kingdom legal framework as well as in the legal frameworks of many oth...
Michael McMahon: Lab
That brings me on to another point about self-determination. In considering this matter in some detail, I came across a 2003 report, "10 Reasons for Not Lega...
Ruth Morgan Thomas:
I do not believe that we would be. It interests me that people always claim that what sex workers say is orchestrated by the sex industry or by businessmen. ...
Michael McMahon: Lab
We are talking about exploitation and power relationships in society. Marianne Eriksson, of the European Parliament's Committee on Women's Rights and Equal O...
Ruth Morgan Thomas:
I have read it.
Michael McMahon: Lab
She said:"EU Member States have capitulated and, instead of fighting against such exploitation of human beings, have accepted the prevailing situation and, t...
Ruth Morgan Thomas:
The issue is complex. You refer constantly to legalisation. Neither I, personally, nor SCOT-PEP supports the legalisation of the sex industry. That is differ...
Michael McMahon: Lab
We are being asked to pass a bill that would regulate prostitution. I do not think that the two issues can be separated. The only reason why we are discussin...
Ruth Morgan Thomas:
The issue of regulation is about decriminalising two offences, the existence of which phenomenally increases the vulnerability of street-based sex workers.
Michael McMahon: Lab
I am not convinced.
Mr Welsh: SNP
This has been a thoughtful and philosophical session.
Ruth Morgan Thomas:
Much more so than the previous meeting was.
Mr Welsh: SNP
It is useful that it has been so, but I would like to ask about a more factual matter. As you will be aware, following the stage 1 debate on the previous bil...
Ruth Morgan Thomas:
Yes, we have facilitated members of that group to come out on our night-time service provision, because the first phase of its work involves looking solely a...
Mr Welsh: SNP
In your work in the unofficial tolerance zone, how successful were your efforts to support street prostitutes who wished to leave the sex industry and how do...
Ruth Morgan Thomas:
We had funding from Scottish Enterprise for two and half years for our new futures project. As I said, 10 per cent of all the sex workers with whom we had co...
George Lewis:
One of our problems in gaining continuing funding for our new futures scheme was that we were unable to demonstrate that we had been successful. However, as ...
Mr Welsh: SNP
You lay great store on trust and on the relationships that are built up and you are calling for more targeted support services, but such services are, in man...