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Committee

Justice Committee, 12 Jan 2010

12 Jan 2010 · S3 · Justice Committee
Item of business
Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Ewing, Fergus SNP Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber Watch on SPTV
One facet that has emerged from almost all the evidence is that not passing the bill presents some very real risks for the Scottish legal profession. If we do not pass the bill, solicitors in England and Wales will, through the Legal Services Act 2007, be entitled to enter into alternative business structures. Solicitors in Scotland will not, which I think will tie one hand behind the back of many Scottish legal firms. Let me tell the committee why.We have had evidence from the president of the Law Society of Scotland and the dean of the Faculty of Advocates, who are extremely concerned that that will be the case. In their view, the bill is essential because without it, the Scottish legal profession will be disadvantaged. The reason that they gave for holding that view—by Ian Smart, in particular—is that if Scottish firms do not have the opportunity to avail themselves of the business opportunities created by the bill, some of them will, in order to get those opportunities, register as solicitors in England and Wales. They will remove themselves from regulation in Scotland and move to England and Wales. That clear suggestion has been made in evidence by those at the top of our legal profession in Scotland. I am sure that the committee agrees with me that that is a serious warning indeed. Furthermore, even among those who oppose the bill, there is general recognition that that is a real risk.However, let me be positive—I want to put a positive case for the bill to receive the support of the committee and the Parliament. There are many aspects, which concern not just large but small firms. As is stated in paragraph 39 of the policy memorandum, much of the work that the largest firms in Scotland do is in areas that are not reserved to Scots law. Many of those top firms compete not simply in Edinburgh and Glasgow, but in London and internationally. They will probably be competing not in domestic conveyancing or family law, important though those topics are—we will come on to them—but in commercial law, aviation law, mercantile law, the law of shipping, the law of telecommunications, the law of telegraphy, the law of patents and copyrights, arbitration or construction law. All those areas of law and many others that I could mention are areas in which law firms that seek business from the largest commercial concerns by offering a specialist service may well wish to enter into business relationships with experts. They might wish to enter into such relationships with experts in aviation or shipping law, for example. They would certainly wish to do so with experts in construction, if one thinks of the scope in arbitration work for complicated commercial construction disputes. They might also wish to have experts in taxation or pension law.All those areas are highly lucrative and each has massive markets and huge potential. Unless we pass the bill, our Scottish solicitors will not be able to avail themselves of the opportunities that exist in areas of law that, unlike the framing of writs, litigation and conveyancing, are not reserved to Scottish solicitors but in which activities can be carried out by all solicitors in the United Kingdom. Unless we avoid a situation in which our firms have one hand tied behind their backs, they may well be disadvantaged.As the policy memorandum states, the value to the Scottish economy of the turnover of the Scottish legal profession is estimated to be more than £1 billion. That shows the scale of the opportunities that exist, even if the recession has predated that sum. There are massive opportunities for Scottish lawyers and the Scottish legal system. Over the past decades, we have perhaps been held back, with even our largest public limited companies choosing to use law firms in London for various reasons, which we are seeking to address in the bill and in other ways, such as through the extremely important work of Lord Gill.The opportunities are there. I am not sure that the committee has heard the case that is being expounded by the large firms. I am not offering to step into the breach, because I am not qualified to speak for any of them, but it is fairly obvious that there are immense opportunities, which I have tried to expound in brief. If we stick with the restrictions in the 1980 act, none of the opportunities that I have described will exist.

In the same item of business

The Convener: Con
Item 2 also relates to the Legal Services (Scotland) Bill and is the main item of business this morning. I welcome Fergus Ewing, the Minister for Community S...
The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing): SNP
Good morning, convener and committee members. I begin by declaring that I am a Scottish solicitor, but I am not in practice.At the heart of the bill is the r...
The Convener: Con
Thank you for your useful introduction. I certainly do not think that we want to do anything about rights of audience until the Thomson report, which follows...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
Several factors have driven the case for reform. The committee is aware of the history, which is fully canvassed in the policy memorandum to the bill. In Eng...
The Convener: Con
Given that the Westminster Government introduced the financial services act south of the border some years ago, what would be the impact of our not passing a...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
I presume that you are referring to the Legal Services Act 2007, not the financial services act.
The Convener: Con
Sorry—yes.
Fergus Ewing: SNP
One facet that has emerged from almost all the evidence is that not passing the bill presents some very real risks for the Scottish legal profession. If we d...
The Convener: Con
You may think that it is strange that I am raising this issue at this stage in the proceedings, bearing it in mind that the bill has been certified by both t...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
I am pleased that you have raised that issue with me. The answer is that I am satisfied. A number of issues have been raised relating to possible problems wi...
The Convener: Con
It would be useful if you could give us a written representation on that heading.
Fergus Ewing: SNP
Thank you.
The Convener: Con
We now turn to questions surrounding access to justice, which will be led by Stewart Maxwell.
Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
Good morning, minister. You said in your opening remarks that a number of witnesses have submitted evidence to the committee in which they express concern ab...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
My response is on a number of levels. First, to ensure that access is available to those who are perhaps most vulnerable and those whose problems may involve...
The Convener: Con
You will have that opportunity shortly.
Stewart Maxwell: SNP
We will come on to the issue of regulation in more detail shortly.The minister mentioned that the amount of legal aid work has increased. It has been express...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
Arithmetically, the argument is correct, because 600 divided by 10,000 is 6 per cent—I am no mathematician, but I think that that is correct. I said earlier ...
Stewart Maxwell: SNP
I hear what the minister is saying, but I have a final question. Although the legal services market is not directly comparable to many other areas of life in...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
I do not think so. I really do not think that the areas of law that we are talking about are likely to be of great interest to supermarkets. As the member en...
Colin McKay (Scottish Government Constitution, Courts and Law Directorate):
I was not sure whether the 600 to which Mr Maxwell referred were 600 individuals or 600 firms.
Stewart Maxwell: SNP
I think that the minister used the figure 619.
Colin McKay:
If it was 600 firms, that would not be comparable with 10,000 individual solicitors, because firms would have more than one—
Fergus Ewing: SNP
I was quoting Tom Murray, who referred to 619 registered civil firms.
Colin McKay:
So it is not quite such a fragile—
The Convener: Con
It could be much higher.
Colin McKay:
Absolutely.More generally, a lot of access to justice issues were looked at in a fairly major review that was undertaken a few years ago. One of the review's...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): LD
I am intrigued by the suggestion that the bill will have advantages in social welfare law. To be frank, it seems to me that if, for example, one were to cons...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
The bill's primary purpose is not to tackle that problem, as I have already said. I hope that members agree that the provisions in the bill that directly app...
Robert Brown: LD
I would like to avoid doubt about the motivation for the bill and its general purpose and direction. You have given a clear view of the position that would a...