Committee
Communities Committee, 27 Sep 2006
27 Sep 2006 · S2 · Communities Committee
Item of business
Planning etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Mike Rumbles cited the case of a neighbour who feels aggrieved when a local authority grants planning permission for a development next door. We have all heard of such cases a few times over the years in our constituencies—it is a familiar story. The other side of the story is that a happy applicant has been granted permission to build a house next door. This is about making decisions. In an ideal world, it would be lovely to get 100 per cent consensus for or against every proposed development but, as we all know, life is not like that. At the end of the day, where there is no agreement, someone—preferably the local authority, but in some cases the Scottish ministers—must make a decision. It does no one any favours to prolong the process for years with a series of appeals and procedures that delay matters, cost money and are aggravating for everyone concerned.We understand that the bill is intended to promote better, more widespread community engagement at the earlier stages of consideration of local plans. Let us face it—we all need developments. We all live in houses, and houses are needed for a growing population. We need affordable houses in our communities, landfill sites, infrastructure, roads, shops, power stations and the rest of it, but we tend to want them to be somewhere else. It is human nature for people to want those things to be located in someone else's back yard—out of sight and out of mind. We need sensible discussions on such matters and decent plans, and we need planning applications to be determined once they have been submitted.As members will gather from the tone of my remarks, I am minded to resist the idea of third-party right of appeal. At least, I was until I received the letter that Mr Charles Hammond of Forth Ports sent to all members, urging us to oppose the amendments. Mr Hammond represents a company that is promoting ship-to-ship oil transfer in the Firth of Forth, regardless of the fact that it poses a risk of pollution and will not create one job in Scotland. His letter illustrates the fact that planners, planning authorities, local authorities and the Scottish Executive need to be extremely vigilant in dealing with some development companies. We need to be careful, as there are people around who are looking for fast bucks. I will put the letter to one side, but it illustrates the need for vigilance.I honestly believe that the bill can work, if communities rise to the challenge of engaging in early consideration of plans and if planning authorities are extremely careful, especially when dealing with companies such as Forth Ports.I fear that amendments 126, 130 and 251 would take us back to the old reactive and fundamentally negative approach to planning. At worst, they could provide a charter for protracted obstruction by third-party objectors.We have discussed the arguments at some length. I pay tribute to colleagues in all parties who have urged consideration of the third-party right of appeal, which is important and deserves to be considered seriously. However, we must have the courage of our convictions about the bill. It would be a mistake to put a spanner in the works in the form of a mechanism for third-party appeals.I hope and believe that communities will engage in planning for the future and give positive consideration to the developments that we all need. We should trust local authorities and the Scottish ministers to make the system work. We have discussed the issue at some length. The time has come for the committee to make a decision.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Karen Whitefield):
Lab
I open the 25th meeting in 2006 of the Communities Committee. I remind all present that mobile phones should be turned off.The first and only item on the age...
Section 18—Appeals etc
The Convener:
Lab
Amendment 126, in the name of Mike Rumbles, is grouped with amendments 130, 251, 201, 218, 206 and 219.I should have welcomed Mike Rumbles, Sandra White and ...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
I have brought effectively only one amendment before the committee. I aim to address what I hope is a non-partisan issue that I believe is also an issue of n...
Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
This is third time lucky, as it is the third time that we have turned up to debate the issue. Thankfully, we are being heard today, so I am grateful to the c...
The Convener:
Lab
I am afraid that you are not. As the member with the lead amendment in the group, Mike Rumbles has that right. Unfortunately, other members do not.
Ms White:
SNP
I will therefore continue. I am aware that the committee has been considering the bill for many weeks and, as I said, members are familiar with the third-par...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
Mike Rumbles and Sandra White have covered a lot of the arguments for a third-party right of appeal. Amendment 251 tries to keep to what I think is the basic...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I heard what Mike Rumbles had to say, but amendment 126 is too broad. In the example that he gave, he kept talking about a mistake by a planning officer. Jus...
Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
I congratulate Sandra White on lodging amendment 130 and on the work that she has done in the Parliament over the years to campaign for a limited third-party...
Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab):
Lab
Sandra White is right to say that the planning system needs to be transparent, fair and just. There is no doubt about that. My difficulty with amendments 126...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green):
Green
I will begin with the question that Mike Rumbles and Scott Barrie touched on—whether the third-party right of appeal is consistent with the bill and the prin...
Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab):
Lab
I agree with Scott Barrie's points. I have been nudging him; perhaps he was looking over my shoulder at my notes.Unfortunately, some of the people who have b...
Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD):
LD
I am interested in Sandra White's amendment 130, which is so limited that I wonder whether it is worth while. People would have to pass through a series of h...
John Home Robertson (East Lothian) (Lab):
Lab
Mike Rumbles cited the case of a neighbour who feels aggrieved when a local authority grants planning permission for a development next door. We have all hea...
Dave Petrie (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I have listened to all the arguments on both sides and I remain unconvinced about the third-party right of appeal. However, I am not saying that I will not s...
The Convener:
Lab
There are strongly held views on both sides of the argument on rights of appeal. Everyone is striving to create a planning system that is open, transparent a...
The Deputy Minister for Communities (Johann Lamont):
Lab
Amendment 126 from Mike Rumbles and amendment 130 from Sandra White seek to introduce some form of limited third-party right of appeal into the planning syst...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
We have had a fascinating and constructive debate, which has teased out misunderstandings. I am disappointed by my own inability to get across the purpose of...
John Home Robertson:
Lab
That is a threat. Laughter.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
I thought that the convener made the point well that we are all here to try to do the best for the system. That is why I am making an appeal. I feel that 99 ...
The Convener:
Lab
The question is, that amendment 126 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Convener:
Lab
There will be a division.
ForHarvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)AgainstBarrie, Scott (Dunfermline West) (Lab)Craigie, Cathie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab) Grahame, Christine (South of...
The Convener:
Lab
The result of the division is: For 1, Against 8, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 126 disagreed to.
Amendment 130 moved—Ms Sandra White.
The Convener:
Lab
The question is, that amendment 130 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.