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Committee

Communities Committee, 27 Sep 2006

27 Sep 2006 · S2 · Communities Committee
Item of business
Planning etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
This is third time lucky, as it is the third time that we have turned up to debate the issue. Thankfully, we are being heard today, so I am grateful to the committee. I think that my amendment 130 is pretty straightforward, but others might not deem it to be so. It was in the proposal for a third-party planning rights of appeal bill that I produced in 2003, and although I am fully aware of the changes that the committee has recommended and the Executive has made through the Planning etc (Scotland) Bill, I do not think that they go far enough.Two weeks ago, Jackie Baillie said that she had produced an eloquent and elegant amendment, and Christine Grahame said that I would be presenting a "full-frontal" amendment. I do not know whether members will see amendment 130 in that light, but I hope that they will listen to my case for a limited third-party right of appeal, because justice, fairness and transparency must be seen by everyone to come before the Parliament. That is one reason why I lodged amendment 130.The third-party right of appeal that I propose in my amendment is limited, as it would not affect national development. I understand the position fully. When I was a substitute on the Communities Committee, I read various documents about the national planning framework, and I came to the conclusion that I would not include national development in my proposed third-party right of appeal. However, such a right needs to exist for other situations. Mike Rumbles mentioned neighbours, but I feel that that is perhaps too limited.Individuals should have a right to appeal, and my amendment 130 would give that to"any person who made representations relating to the application to the planning authority".At the moment, any person who makes representations to a planning authority as an objector has a right to be heard, whether in an inquiry or in a public hearing, so amendment 130 follows on from current legislation. That provision exists because the public should have such a right. If they have taken the trouble to object to a particular planning development in their area, they should have the right to appeal. That is why my amendment 130 refers to "any person who made representations",unlike Donald Gorrie's amendment 251, which refers to community councils. The term "any person" can refer to a body of people, whether or not that is a community council.Members are familiar with the third-party right of appeal. My proposal, which is fairly straightforward, is that it should be limited to the following categories. The first two categories are applications that are"subject to an environmental impact assessment"or which relate to"land the planning authority owns or in which it has an interest".The third category is where "the granting of planning permission in respect of the application is contrary to … any current strategic or local development",or where any recommendation has been made about an application"by officers employed by the planning authority".At the moment, an objection can be made on those grounds. I commend the Executive for saying that it wants to listen to objectors and for the consultation process that is set out in the bill. The process will allow for people to be listened to, but at the end of the day they would have no right to appeal a decision, unless amendment 130 were agreed to and the application came under proposed new section 47(2C) of the Town and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997.I cite the example that Pauline McNeill MSP gave in her recent evidence to the committee:"Another problem is that when a planning committee refuses to grant planning permission on the basis of the local plan, that does not prevent the developer from appealing and arguing that the local authority failed to apply the local plan and that the developer has a different interpretation of it. The local authority is judge and jury on the local plan but, unlike anyone else, developers have the right to challenge it when there is a dispute."—Official Report, Communities Committee, 13 September 2006; c 3921. That is why a third-party right of appeal should be included in the bill. As I said, it is unfair that people who are directly affected and who have taken the trouble of making representations cannot challenge a decision. For example, Tesco is proposing a huge development in Partick. Although Tesco has pulled back its plans, the development will still change the face of the area—shops will close down and so forth. If the development goes ahead—against the local plan and local feeling—objectors and the local community will have no right of appeal.I suggested previously that, in order to level the playing field, the right of appeal should be taken away from the developer, in which case a third-party right of appeal would not be needed. That suggestion was turned down. People out there—objectors, interested parties and local communities—feel that, although they will be listened to and consulted, at the end of the day they will have no recourse to appeal a decision. I am not saying that every appeal would be successful or that an appeal would be made in every case. I have even gone so far as to suggest that a charge of £20 or £25, which would not be prohibitive, could be made for appealing a decision. I am saying not that a third-party right of appeal should be open to everyone but that fairness ought to prevail. At the moment, fairness does not prevail. I do not want to labour the point. I will hear what the minister has to say. Am I allowed to come back in again after the minister, convener?

In the same item of business

The Convener (Karen Whitefield): Lab
I open the 25th meeting in 2006 of the Communities Committee. I remind all present that mobile phones should be turned off.The first and only item on the age...
Section 18—Appeals etc
The Convener: Lab
Amendment 126, in the name of Mike Rumbles, is grouped with amendments 130, 251, 201, 218, 206 and 219.I should have welcomed Mike Rumbles, Sandra White and ...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): LD
I have brought effectively only one amendment before the committee. I aim to address what I hope is a non-partisan issue that I believe is also an issue of n...
Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP): SNP
This is third time lucky, as it is the third time that we have turned up to debate the issue. Thankfully, we are being heard today, so I am grateful to the c...
The Convener: Lab
I am afraid that you are not. As the member with the lead amendment in the group, Mike Rumbles has that right. Unfortunately, other members do not.
Ms White: SNP
I will therefore continue. I am aware that the committee has been considering the bill for many weeks and, as I said, members are familiar with the third-par...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): LD
Mike Rumbles and Sandra White have covered a lot of the arguments for a third-party right of appeal. Amendment 251 tries to keep to what I think is the basic...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
I heard what Mike Rumbles had to say, but amendment 126 is too broad. In the example that he gave, he kept talking about a mistake by a planning officer. Jus...
Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): SNP
I congratulate Sandra White on lodging amendment 130 and on the work that she has done in the Parliament over the years to campaign for a limited third-party...
Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): Lab
Sandra White is right to say that the planning system needs to be transparent, fair and just. There is no doubt about that. My difficulty with amendments 126...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green): Green
I will begin with the question that Mike Rumbles and Scott Barrie touched on—whether the third-party right of appeal is consistent with the bill and the prin...
Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): Lab
I agree with Scott Barrie's points. I have been nudging him; perhaps he was looking over my shoulder at my notes.Unfortunately, some of the people who have b...
Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): LD
I am interested in Sandra White's amendment 130, which is so limited that I wonder whether it is worth while. People would have to pass through a series of h...
John Home Robertson (East Lothian) (Lab): Lab
Mike Rumbles cited the case of a neighbour who feels aggrieved when a local authority grants planning permission for a development next door. We have all hea...
Dave Petrie (Highlands and Islands) (Con): Con
I have listened to all the arguments on both sides and I remain unconvinced about the third-party right of appeal. However, I am not saying that I will not s...
The Convener: Lab
There are strongly held views on both sides of the argument on rights of appeal. Everyone is striving to create a planning system that is open, transparent a...
The Deputy Minister for Communities (Johann Lamont): Lab
Amendment 126 from Mike Rumbles and amendment 130 from Sandra White seek to introduce some form of limited third-party right of appeal into the planning syst...
Mike Rumbles: LD
We have had a fascinating and constructive debate, which has teased out misunderstandings. I am disappointed by my own inability to get across the purpose of...
John Home Robertson: Lab
That is a threat. Laughter.
Mike Rumbles: LD
I thought that the convener made the point well that we are all here to try to do the best for the system. That is why I am making an appeal. I feel that 99 ...
The Convener: Lab
The question is, that amendment 126 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Convener: Lab
There will be a division.
ForHarvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)AgainstBarrie, Scott (Dunfermline West) (Lab)Craigie, Cathie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab) Grahame, Christine (South of...
The Convener: Lab
The result of the division is: For 1, Against 8, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 126 disagreed to.
Amendment 130 moved—Ms Sandra White.
The Convener: Lab
The question is, that amendment 130 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.