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Justice 2 Committee, 07 Mar 2006

07 Mar 2006 · S2 · Justice 2 Committee

Item of business

Police, Public Order and Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Henry, Hugh Lab Paisley South Watch on SPTV

If I may, I will comment just before Jackie Baillie winds up. On Colin Fox's point, one thing about which Jackie Baillie and I agree is that we do not want a police complaints system that deals with every trivial complaint as a matter of first instance. Where possible, we want complaints to be dealt with appropriately at a local level. In cases where people are aggrieved and do not feel satisfied, there is a clear need to have a system that can, independently of the police, examine the more serious complaints, so that people may be assured that it is not a matter of the police investigating themselves and somehow protecting one another. I have no difficulty with what Jackie Baillie said about independence, but I believe that the ombudsman is truly independent. Any of us who has dealt with the ombudsman when she has been dealing with a range of agencies will know that she guards her office's independence jealously. I am sure that, whatever the ombudsman was given to do, she would protect that independence. Maladministration is a wider issue than that of simple complaints; there is a difference in emphasis between the two areas.I neglected to refer in my opening remarks to another of our proposals regarding additional powers for the proposed commissioner. The ombudsman's current role is limited to dealing with complaints of maladministration or service failure by a police authority or joint board. In practice, that role can be limited. A chief constable is responsible for all operational aspects of policing in their force area and for the deployment of resources. Those matters tend to be the focus of complaints. Currently, Her Majesty's inspectorate of constabulary has a role in that, but we intend to remove that role and give it to the proposed commissioner.Colin Fox, Stewart Maxwell and the convener indicated that they are sympathetic to Jackie Baillie's approach. There seems to be a view that, wherever possible and irrespective of our views on the arm's-length question, we should avoid clutter and overlapping and reduce bureaucracy. Whatever the outcome of this discussion, there are aspects of it that the Executive and the Parliament will perhaps need to look at for the future.Jackie Baillie referred to work that is being done in the Parliament in relation to the various commissioners' offices. Clearly, there is a growing anxiety about them and I think that we need to protect the interests of the public by using money wisely and ensuring that the public is not confused about where to go for different levels of complaint. Perhaps we will need to have another debate at some point.