Committee
Justice 2 Committee, 18 Mar 2003
18 Mar 2003 · S1 · Justice 2 Committee
Item of business
Petitions
Asbestos (PE336)
The process has been interesting and a lot has been achieved. When the matter first came to the committee, there was tremendous sympathy for the people who were in such an unhappy position. The committee was determined to ensure that something was done and I am convinced that we have achieved that.The crux of the matter is defined in rule 43.8 of the practice note that the Lord President proposes to issue. The convener was correct to point out that she and I were a little dubious about some of the language that was used. We felt that it could have been more specific and harder, to ensure that applications for an acceleration of the timetable would be dealt with in the manner that we would have wished. However, I draw the committee's attention to the wording, which states that the court would "look with considerable sympathy on"any such applications. The word inconceivable is perhaps too strong to describe the situation but, frankly, having heard the Lord President's explanation, I think that it would be extremely unusual if the process did not go on along those lines. It should also be highlighted that any individual or party opposing an application for acceleration must"demonstrate that their opposition is well founded"—to use the words that are contained in practice note number 2. There is also an appeals provision in the event of either party feeling that they have not received satisfaction in that respect.This issue is also likely to remain live in the Court of Session. One of the procedures that was outlined in the Coulsfield rules was that a users committee could be set up. Such a committee will obviously keep the situation under constant review, particularly in the early months when people will necessarily be finding their feet.That leaves simply the outstanding cases that are already in the pipeline. As members are aware, on separate occasions the convener and I attended Lord Mackay's court to see what happened there. From our observations it is clear that he is making every effort to expedite matters. Delays were not exclusive to the defenders; the pursuers also had to take responsibility for delays from time to time. All in all, our work on this petition has been worth while. Clearly, and ideally, we would have wished to see all those cases disposed of within six months, and some of them may well be. We have achieved a result that will in turn inevitably mean that those cases will be dealt with on a fairer and more expedient basis than has previously been the case. That is as a result of subtle pressure that was recognised as being worth while and that received a receptive hearing from the Lord President and the others whom we met.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
I will go through each of the petitions to establish their status. However, first we need to discuss the important matter of petition PE336, which concerns a...
Bill Aitken:
Con
The process has been interesting and a lot has been achieved. When the matter first came to the committee, there was tremendous sympathy for the people who w...
Mr Hamilton:
SNP
The convener, Bill Aitken and the Lord President are to be commended for what they have done on this petition. We have reached the point that is precisely wh...
The Convener:
Lab
Yes.
Mr Hamilton:
SNP
What is the difference between that position and the new procedure?
The Convener:
Lab
The difference is that the new procedure will apply under rule 43.8. The judge must consider that as a matter of policy and must look with sympathy on applic...
Mr Hamilton:
SNP
Once that policy has been decided different procedures do not necessarily mean that those cases prior to April will be leapfrogged in the process. Is that co...
The Convener:
Lab
No.
Gillian Baxendine:
Just for clarity, the other difference for the cases before 1 April is that the Coulsfield provisions will not apply. Those cases will not automatically be t...
Mr Hamilton:
SNP
But for those who are in the pre-April category, the fact that the other cases will take place on a truncated time scale will mean that the queue is shorter ...
The Convener:
Lab
That is right.
Bill Aitken:
Con
Inevitably, the fact that the more recent cases are being dealt with in this manner will have a knock-on effect.
The Convener:
Lab
The by order hearings conducted by Lord Mackay can still proceed for the cases that are pre-April, so that has been successful so far in shortening the timet...
Mr Hamilton:
SNP
Okay. That is fine.
The Convener:
Lab
Ultimately, what we detect—we can get only a sense of what we think is going on—is that the will is there to speed up the pre-1 April cases. However, the pro...
Mr Hamilton:
SNP
I appreciate that. My other question is about the dispute that might surround an application for an accelerated diet and Bill Aitken's comments about rule 43...
The Convener:
Lab
We spent a lot of time asking what that meant. A flavour of what was said to us is that judges would expect a damn good reason from the defence if it did not...
Mr Hamilton:
SNP
That is fine. I was just curious.
The Convener:
Lab
You have asked the same questions that we asked.
Mr Hamilton:
SNP
I do not doubt it.I have one final question on whether the process works. Is there any facility for keeping a note of the statistics? Is there on-going resea...
The Convener:
Lab
The Executive has offered to do that. I think that, in concluding the matter, we should make it clear that the committee expects to work with the Scottish Ex...
Mr Hamilton:
SNP
Who is responsible for the collation of the statistics?
Gillian Baxendine:
The Scottish Executive has offered the services of its research department to help with that, but it is a matter for the court.
Bill Aitken:
Con
The users group is also involved. It will be representative of all parties and will have the figures before it. We should be able to tap into that.
Mr Hamilton:
SNP
Is this part of our legacy paper? Does the paper already state that there will be an on-going review?
Gillian Baxendine:
The legacy paper will have to be updated in the light of this discussion.
Mr Hamilton:
SNP
In that case, I am happy to support that approach.
The Convener:
Lab
We will state in the paper in the strongest possible terms that there will be an on-going review.We are trying to arrange a meeting this week to make the pet...