Committee
Justice 2 Committee, 18 Mar 2003
18 Mar 2003 · S1 · Justice 2 Committee
Item of business
Sexual Offences Bill
Lady Cosgrove's recommendations were published in 2001. It may have been decided that it was best to wait for the Home Office consultation, but I am not sure what more that was supposed to achieve. If the Executive thought that that was the right thing to do, that is what it should have done.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
The committee will examine the Sexual Offences Bill, which the United Kingdom Parliament is considering. I welcome Hugh Henry, the Deputy Minister for Justic...
The Deputy Minister for Justice (Hugh Henry):
Lab
I am sure that we are all aware of the significance of the issue that we are debating today. The registration of sex offenders is clearly an issue that conce...
The Convener:
Lab
If the judge decides that there is a significant sexual element, will the judge determine whether the person will be registered on the sex offenders register?
Hugh Henry:
Lab
Yes.
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):
SNP
I listened carefully to what the minister had to say and I want to raise a range of issues with him. The first issue is a matter of principle. I understand t...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
I did not follow your question. What did you mean when you said that it had "become invalid today"?
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I am in a quandary about why we are being asked to grant to the Houses of Parliament at Westminster the right to deal with a Scottish issue, when it is manif...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
That might be their procedure for dealing with the bill, but we have the opportunity to make our comment. We believe that we are taking the right way forward...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I am not debating that issue—we could debate it, but I do not intend to spend much time on it. My point is simply that, if the House of Lords has had the sec...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
We still have the opportunity to influence the process, because the measures will be subject to committee consideration at Westminster. We will be able to in...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I am grateful for that. Let me move to the substance of my questions. In your opening remarks, you made the point that we wish to deal with the matter in Sco...
The Convener:
Lab
The minister is considering his answer. Members of the committee do not have the list in the bill.
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I have it here.
Hugh Henry:
Lab
The way in which we are approaching the issue is to extend the coverage of offences with a significant sexual aspect in line with the recommendations of Lady...
The Convener:
Lab
I think that the member's concern is that the list looks like a statutory list, such as would be compiled in England and Wales, which might negate our princi...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
That is a moot point. The committee has made some helpful recommendations, which we are trying to reflect, along with the concerns that the committee has exp...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
Nonetheless, there is a dichotomy between the argument that you are deploying in support of the use of a list in schedule 2 to the Sexual Offences Bill that ...
The Convener:
Lab
Let us be clear that other committee members—including me—understand what you are talking about. You are saying that you would prefer not to have a list of o...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I am minded to accept what you have just said. I have not done sufficient work to come to a firm conclusion on the matter, but I would prefer the reference t...
The Convener:
Lab
I did not say that there is a contradiction. I think that we might be talking about different things. That is your question.
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
As I said, the minister can perhaps put me right.
Hugh Henry:
Lab
The bill attempts to incorporate what is already in the Sex Offenders Act 1997, which lists offences in Scotland. Paragraph 2(1) of schedule 1 to the 1997 ac...
The Convener:
Lab
You have given us an explanation of the list. It is for the committee to comment on whether that is the way in which the bill should proceed.
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I have one final point. I accept the minister's comments. Will he add to the list of offences the traffic in prostitution offence that was introduced under s...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
I do not think that that would be listed, but I will take advice.
The Convener:
Lab
We will have to come back to that point because I have a question on whether a judge would consider that to be a serious offence. I worry about whether a jud...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
The problem is that no list can ever be totally exhaustive. I will propose a scenario that could occur and that is not covered by the list or by the bill as ...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
That is one of the things that Lady Cosgrove considered. We are proposing to address that issue.
Bill Aitken:
Con
As I see it, what you are proposing does not cover that scenario because the list does not cover it. If such an incident were dealt with under the common law...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
We are proposing that, where evidence given in court suggests that there is a serious sexual element to the offence, the judge can decide to take account of ...