Committee
Justice 2 Committee, 18 Mar 2003
18 Mar 2003 · S1 · Justice 2 Committee
Item of business
Sexual Offences Bill
I am sure that we are all aware of the significance of the issue that we are debating today. The registration of sex offenders is clearly an issue that concerns the public, who want to be assured that appropriate measures are in place. We are attempting to improve the way in which the police keep track of convicted sex offenders, which will assure the public. The proposed measures will improve our ability to monitor the whereabouts of convicted sex offenders and will strengthen our ability to protect children and other potential victims from the risk that sex offenders can pose.We know that the public are understandably concerned about the menace of sex offenders and the wider risks that such offenders pose. The Executive and our Westminster counterparts have acted quickly to introduce safeguards where the need to strengthen the sex offenders register has been highlighted. As far as is practically possible, we have sought to do that across the UK as a whole.We know that sex offenders can be adept at avoiding detection and circumnavigating the public protection and community safety restrictions that we have placed on them. Sex offenders are no respecters of their victims, and they are certainly no respecters of the differing criminal justice systems that apply in the UK and, indeed, in different parts of the world. Several important measures to strengthen the sex offenders register have already been introduced in the UK. Those measures respond to public concern about the dangers that sex offenders pose following the tragic death of Sarah Payne. The measures were contained in the UK Criminal Justice and Court Services Act 2000 and more recently in the Police Reform Act 2002.Both of those were the subject of Sewel motion debates on 5 October 2000 and 26 June 2002 respectively. The Scottish Parliament supported measures that included increasing the maximum penalty for failure to register from six months' to five years' imprisonment. Following a particularly difficult case in which a dangerous sex offender was convicted in England but moved to Scotland, we took steps to ensure that the mutual recognition of sex offender orders was respected across the UK. The further measures that we now propose to introduce will strengthen arrangements in a number of areas that were highlighted in the Home Office-led review of the Sex Offenders Act 1997. The Scottish Executive was actively involved in that review between June 2000 and July 2001. Improvements will address concerns that notification by post does not enable the police to know that the offender is in their area; that the period of 14 days to register a change of address is too long; that the onus is on the police to ensure that the offender is still at the registered address rather than on the offender to ensure that they keep the registered information up to date; and that itinerant offenders can evade registration. Such concerns are undoubtedly valid and our proposals to address them are sensible.We also mean to tackle the sexual exploitation of children wherever it occurs. Currently, the courts do not have the power to stop an individual who has been convicted of sex offences against children travelling overseas for the purpose of activities that involve sexual harm to children. We believe that that is wrong and so we propose measures that will prevent sex offenders from travelling overseas in certain circumstances. Clearly, the court would have to be satisfied that certain conditions had been met before such a measure was taken—for example, that the offender's behaviour posed a high risk to children abroad—but it is important that the power is there for the courts to act if necessary.Through regulations, we intend to tighten the arrangements for the notification of foreign travel by registered sex offenders. The Scottish Parliament will have a further opportunity to debate those measures when the regulations are made. We also intend to introduce a new order to make those who have been convicted of sex offences overseas register when they come to the UK.There are a number of measures through which we propose to take a different approach from that of the Home Secretary. In 2001, the expert panel on sex offending submitted to ministers its report entitled "Reducing the Risk: Improving the response to sex offending". The report made 73 wide-ranging recommendations, which form a cohesive framework for the management and supervision of sex offenders. The recommendations covered community and personal safety, risk assessment, access to personal change programmes, housing and information management. It also dealt in detail with strengthening existing monitoring, which is the subject of this Sewel motion.The expert panel's recommendations strengthen the notification provisions of the Sex Offenders Act 1997 in relation to offences that are committed in Scotland. They extend the notification requirements to sex offenders who are convicted of specific offences—abduction with intent to rape, assault with intent to rape or ravish and indecent assault—not just when the victim is under 18 or the offender was sentenced to at least 30 months, as is presently the case. Also, where an offender is convicted of any offence that does not carry an automatic notification requirement, but where the evidence discloses that there was a sufficiently significant sexual element to the offender's behaviour to warrant additional measures to protect the public from serious harm, they require that the court should have discretionary power to order notification.Those provisions recognise that persons who commit serious offences against victims of any age or where there is a significant sexual element should not escape the notification requirement. It is preferable to legislate in accordance with the expert panel's recommendations. Doing so will mean that the courts can examine the sexual element of the crime at the time of trial. In England and Wales, the approach is to list specified offences that allow the courts to examine sexual behaviour. Both approaches are directed at the same ends, but we believe that the Scottish approach better fits with our common law traditions and the approach that the courts take in Scotland. Scotland has benefited not only from the findings of the joint review of the legislation, but from the recommendations of the expert panel on sex offending, which considered closely the operational issues facing the criminal justice system in Scotland in managing and supervising sex offenders.Indeed, the Parliament has already recognised the importance of strengthening the system in recently passing the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill, which will introduce—also as a result of expert panel recommendations—provisions to improve the information that is available to the courts in sexual offence cases. Before passing sentence in indictment cases or cases where offences involve a significant sexual element, the court will be required to obtain reports, including a psychological assessment.The provisions that are contained in the Sewel motion build on that approach. I hope that the committee will be minded to support it.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
The committee will examine the Sexual Offences Bill, which the United Kingdom Parliament is considering. I welcome Hugh Henry, the Deputy Minister for Justic...
The Deputy Minister for Justice (Hugh Henry):
Lab
I am sure that we are all aware of the significance of the issue that we are debating today. The registration of sex offenders is clearly an issue that conce...
The Convener:
Lab
If the judge decides that there is a significant sexual element, will the judge determine whether the person will be registered on the sex offenders register?
Hugh Henry:
Lab
Yes.
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):
SNP
I listened carefully to what the minister had to say and I want to raise a range of issues with him. The first issue is a matter of principle. I understand t...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
I did not follow your question. What did you mean when you said that it had "become invalid today"?
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I am in a quandary about why we are being asked to grant to the Houses of Parliament at Westminster the right to deal with a Scottish issue, when it is manif...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
That might be their procedure for dealing with the bill, but we have the opportunity to make our comment. We believe that we are taking the right way forward...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I am not debating that issue—we could debate it, but I do not intend to spend much time on it. My point is simply that, if the House of Lords has had the sec...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
We still have the opportunity to influence the process, because the measures will be subject to committee consideration at Westminster. We will be able to in...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I am grateful for that. Let me move to the substance of my questions. In your opening remarks, you made the point that we wish to deal with the matter in Sco...
The Convener:
Lab
The minister is considering his answer. Members of the committee do not have the list in the bill.
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I have it here.
Hugh Henry:
Lab
The way in which we are approaching the issue is to extend the coverage of offences with a significant sexual aspect in line with the recommendations of Lady...
The Convener:
Lab
I think that the member's concern is that the list looks like a statutory list, such as would be compiled in England and Wales, which might negate our princi...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
That is a moot point. The committee has made some helpful recommendations, which we are trying to reflect, along with the concerns that the committee has exp...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
Nonetheless, there is a dichotomy between the argument that you are deploying in support of the use of a list in schedule 2 to the Sexual Offences Bill that ...
The Convener:
Lab
Let us be clear that other committee members—including me—understand what you are talking about. You are saying that you would prefer not to have a list of o...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I am minded to accept what you have just said. I have not done sufficient work to come to a firm conclusion on the matter, but I would prefer the reference t...
The Convener:
Lab
I did not say that there is a contradiction. I think that we might be talking about different things. That is your question.
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
As I said, the minister can perhaps put me right.
Hugh Henry:
Lab
The bill attempts to incorporate what is already in the Sex Offenders Act 1997, which lists offences in Scotland. Paragraph 2(1) of schedule 1 to the 1997 ac...
The Convener:
Lab
You have given us an explanation of the list. It is for the committee to comment on whether that is the way in which the bill should proceed.
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I have one final point. I accept the minister's comments. Will he add to the list of offences the traffic in prostitution offence that was introduced under s...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
I do not think that that would be listed, but I will take advice.
The Convener:
Lab
We will have to come back to that point because I have a question on whether a judge would consider that to be a serious offence. I worry about whether a jud...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
The problem is that no list can ever be totally exhaustive. I will propose a scenario that could occur and that is not covered by the list or by the bill as ...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
That is one of the things that Lady Cosgrove considered. We are proposing to address that issue.
Bill Aitken:
Con
As I see it, what you are proposing does not cover that scenario because the list does not cover it. If such an incident were dealt with under the common law...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
We are proposing that, where evidence given in court suggests that there is a serious sexual element to the offence, the judge can decide to take account of ...