Committee
Justice 2 Committee, 12 Dec 2001
12 Dec 2001 · S1 · Justice 2 Committee
Item of business
Sexual Offences (Procedure and Evidence) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I disagree with the minister. Amendment 20 is well conceived and would provide a necessary part of the bill. To some extent, it seeks clarification of the term "substantial sexual element". That is an important aspect.Under proposed section 288C(4), the court is required to make an order applying the procedure under proposed section 288C to the offences that are not listed in proposed section 288C(2). I cannot see anywhere criteria for the definition of the term "substantial sexual element". I bear in mind the fact that we are talking in a vacuum and that few cases of that type are likely to require determination, but difficulties could still arise and there is still, to my mind, an imperative that that term be defined. If it is not defined, appeals will be inevitable from time to time.The minister will have to consider the compliance of the bill as it stands with the European convention on human rights. A contribution from the minister on that aspect would be welcome.Amendment 26 is being accepted, so I need not detain the committee on that point. Having heard the minister's assurances, I will not move amendment 27. However, I commend amendment 20 to the committee.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
Item 3 is stage 2 of the Sexual Offences (Procedure and Evidence) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome Richard Simpson, the new Deputy Minister for Justice, to the com...
Section 1—Prohibition of personal conduct of defence in cases of certain sexual offences
The Convener:
Lab
I call amendment 1, which is grouped with amendments 18, 19, 2, 30 and 15.
The Deputy Minister for Justice (Dr Richard Simpson):
Lab
Before I talk to the amendments, I thank you for your forbearance, convener, with regard to the letter that we wrote to you about holding back the amendments...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
The issues here are fairly straightforward. Having been convinced of the efficacy of section 1 of the proposed legislation, I am seeking to make it more effe...
Mrs Margaret Ewing (Moray) (SNP):
SNP
Amendment 30 has two parts. The first part is to stop the provisions that prevent the accused from representing himself from applying to summary cases. It se...
Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab):
Lab
I would like the minister to clarify amendment 2, as I am not very au fait with the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995. Was the change to the d...
Dr Simpson:
Yes.
Scott Barrie:
Lab
That is all that I needed to know.
The Convener:
Lab
The committee may want to be assured that amendment 2 deals with the points that were made to us by the Equality Network, which claims that the bill as it st...
Dr Simpson:
I would be happy to.Amendment 18, in the name of Bill Aitken, seeks to add shameless indecency to the list of offences that are covered by the bill, so that ...
Amendment 1 agreed to.
The Convener:
Lab
Amendment 18 was debated with amendment 1. Does Bill Aitken wish to move the amendment?
Bill Aitken:
Con
Having heard the minister, I will not move amendment 18, but I reserve my position for stage 3 until I have checked the matter.
Amendment 18 not moved.
Amendment 19 moved—Bill Aitken—and agreed to.
Amendment 2 moved—Dr Richard Simpson—and agreed to.
The Convener:
Lab
Amendment 3 is grouped with amendments 20, 4, 26 and 27. If amendment 20 is agreed to, amendment 4 will be pre-empted.
Dr Simpson:
Amendments 3 and 4 are tidying amendments. Proposed section 288C(2) of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995, which section 1 of the bill will insert, c...
Bill Aitken:
Con
I disagree with the minister. Amendment 20 is well conceived and would provide a necessary part of the bill. To some extent, it seeks clarification of the te...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):
SNP
In commenting on amendment 20, in the name of Bill Aitken, I shall focus particularly on proposed subsection (4A), paragraph (c), to which the minister refer...
Scott Barrie:
Lab
I concur with what Stewart Stevenson said. Amendment 20 strikes against what the bill intends to do. We should be wary of that. Anything that promotes the qu...
The Convener:
Lab
I want to make a few comments in opposition to amendment 20.The committee thought long and hard about the way in which complainers should be protected. We sp...
Dr Simpson:
In our view, the bill should cover all sexual offences. The only relevant question, therefore, is whether the offence is a sexual one. Amendment 20 would mea...
Amendment 3 agreed to.
Amendment 20 moved—Bill Aitken.
The Convener:
Lab
The question is, that amendment 20 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Convener:
Lab
There will be a division.
ForAitken, Bill (Glasgow) (Con)AgainstBarrie, Scott (Dunfermline West) (Lab)Ewing, Mrs Margaret (Moray) (SNP)Lyon, George (Argyll and Bute) (LD)McNeill, Paul...