Committee
Justice 2 Committee, 14 Nov 2001
14 Nov 2001 · S1 · Justice 2 Committee
Item of business
Subordinate Legislation
Draft Small Claims (Scotland) Amendment Order 2001<br />Draft Sheriff Courts (Scotland) Act 1971 (Privative Jurisdiction and Summary Cause) Order 2001
If the changes are made, we will need to monitor their effect on the distribution of civil business in the sheriff court and between the sheriff court and the Court of Session. It is also important to consider the effectiveness of the new summary cause and small claim rules. I suggest that the mechanism for doing that will involve the Scottish Executive's central research unit. I intend to instruct that unit to produce early research into the outcome of the jurisdiction changes and their effects on the sheriff court and the Court of Session.I said that research would be conducted over the first 12 months of the operation of the rules. We should be clear that that will not mean 12 months from now.I have also said that we need to commission research to evaluate the working of the new rules on summary cause and small claims and the effect that they have not only on claims settled in court but—as the convener said—on those that are settled out of court, which are, in fact, the vast majority of claims. My one caveat is that that is an evidence base that has not been developed before—you will appreciate that there are some difficulties because of confidentiality. However, it should not be beyond the wit of the central research unit to identify a way of gathering that information. I expect the unit to consider the shift from ordinary cause to summary cause, from summary cause to small claim in the sheriff court and from the Court of Session to the sheriff court; and to examine how the new rules are operating. In addition, there will be research into the impact or effect on settled cases.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
Our first agenda item deals with two draft orders. I refer members to the note by the clerk, J2/01/31/2, which sets out the background and procedure. I advis...
The Deputy Minister for Justice (Iain Gray):
Lab
I will speak about the two orders together, as they are very much a package. The purpose of the orders is to increase the different financial limits, known a...
That the Justice 2 Committee recommends that the draft Small Claims (Scotland) Amendment Order 2001 be approved.
That the Justice 2 Committee recommends that the draft Sheriff Courts (Scotland) Act 1971 (Privative Jurisdiction and Summary Cause) Order 2001 be approved.
The Convener:
Lab
Before we begin, members should bear in mind that we are involved in a debate and not in an evidence-taking session. The background note that members have on...
Iain Gray:
Lab
Is the convener looking for a response? I am not sure whether I can respond to your question now, or whether you want me to sum up at the end of the debate. ...
The Convener:
Lab
If you could.
Iain Gray:
Lab
The key concerns that came into play at the time that the orders were previously laid before the Justice and Home Affairs Committee were concerns about the s...
Mrs Margaret Ewing (Moray) (SNP):
SNP
I realise that this is supposed to be a debate, but in some ways we are asking questions of the minister. I was interested in the issue that he raised about ...
Iain Gray:
Lab
On the last point, I am not aware of that sum of money having been earmarked for personal injury claims and handed back. I think the point made in the petiti...
Mrs Ewing:
SNP
What are the implications for the legal aid budget?
Iain Gray:
Lab
We have considered that and it seems to us that the impact on the legal aid budget will not be so great that it cannot be dealt with within the current budge...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
Personal injury claims are the nub of the matter. The minister has alleviated some of the concerns. I would be interested if the minister, at some juncture, ...
Iain Gray:
Lab
I will start with the final point and go backwards. No principle is being diluted, because what we are discussing is a change to the jurisdiction limits, whi...
The Convener:
Lab
I am sorry to interrupt you, but I want to stop you on that point and ask a question about the numbers that you have given us. That information is useful, bu...
Iain Gray:
Lab
There are two different points. I was responding to Mr Aitken's point about the role of the Court of Session in developing the law of Scotland by taking its ...
Bill Aitken:
Con
I want to return to the issue of personal injury claims so that I can be satisfied that the measure will not in any way be prejudicial to those. A claim for ...
Iain Gray:
Lab
Yes.
Bill Aitken:
Con
Legal aid would be available to cover the legal expenses that were claimable. What are you attempting to do here? Are you attempting to set up a situation si...
Iain Gray:
Lab
Bill Aitken is correct to say that legal aid would be available. The scale of expenses that would apply would be the summary cause scale. As I said, the lett...
Bill Aitken:
Con
But, in England and Wales, personal injury claims have been removed from the equation, in a simplified procedure.
Iain Gray:
Lab
Yes, in England and Wales, personal injury claims have been removed from the small claims procedure and we propose to do the same. That will allow people to ...
Bill Aitken:
Con
Thank you—that is very helpful.
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):
SNP
It is probably worth while my saying at this stage that I am minded to oppose these orders, although I am prepared to be persuaded by the debate and the mini...
Iain Gray:
Lab
I, too, find the comments in the GMB petition on the lack of consultation rather puzzling. As the convener made clear, the consultation process took place so...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
In the light of the difficulty that appears to have arisen on consultation, is the minister prepared to undertake on his part or that of his Executive collea...
Iain Gray:
Lab
I am happy to take that point. We are always prepared to consider the effectiveness of our consultation. I repeat that the delay that was caused by the passi...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
I accept the minister's point too.
Mrs Ewing:
SNP
I will move on from consultation. Minister, you said en passant to Bill Aitken that if the orders were passed, they would be monitored over, say, the next 12...
Iain Gray:
Lab
If the changes are made, we will need to monitor their effect on the distribution of civil business in the sheriff court and between the sheriff court and th...