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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 11 June 2026 [Draft]

11 Jun 2026 · S7 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Fraser, Murdo Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

We will come on to waste in a moment—I have some suggestions to make in that regard—but I refer Mr McKee to today’s Accounts Commission report on local government, which highlights the scale of the cuts that the Scottish Government has passed down to councils over the 19 years that it has been in power. I hope that that is not a model that the Government intends to follow.

Looking at this whole agenda, we cannot ignore the fact that the SNP has now been in power for almost two decades, so it has had 19 years to start addressing the issue. As my colleague Meghan Gallacher reminded members just a few moments ago, the Christie commission reported on it in 2011. Fifteen years on, we are still hearing about the need to make progress on the same themes of prevention, joined-up services and efficiency, but little progress has been made. The Government can talk a good game, but it needs to start actually delivering.

The SNP has promised before now to shrink the state, but instead it has grown bigger and more expensive. In June 2025, the then finance secretary, Shona Robison, set a target to reduce the public sector workforce by 0.5 per cent a year, but, by the fourth quarter of 2025, the head count, at 601,600, was higher than it had been in the previous year. She had already pledged to reduce the public sector workforce in 2023, but it has continuously increased. The devolved civil service alone has grown by almost 60 per cent since just 2018-19.

What should the Scottish Government do? In the spirit of being helpful, let me give the cabinet secretary some practical suggestions as to the way forward. First—and this is in line with the comments made by Michael Marra and other members—there needs to be a comprehensive assessment of the number of public bodies in Scotland and whether there is any duplication or room for rationalisation. Even the Information Commissioner has said that he is astonished at the number of public bodies in Scotland and that he keeps finding new ones that he did not know about. Whatever the value of their work, each one of those independent bodies needs to have its own board, chief executive, finance director, human resources functions, audit and reporting. When we produced our manifesto just a few weeks ago, we identified that, in the field of economy alone, there were more than 100 different organisations offering business advice. Therefore, we need a simplification and rationalisation of the landscape, and considerable savings could be made if we went down that route.

Secondly, the Scottish Government needs to reconsider its policy on no compulsory redundancies, because relying solely on voluntary severance means that the public sector could be left employing people whose jobs have effectively disappeared and cannot be redeployed elsewhere into valuable roles.

Thirdly, we need to look at the whole public sector estate and assess whether there can be much better sharing of resources. We want to see more public servants back in the office, working on a hybrid model, rather than the default being just working from home. However, even with that, we have substantial buildings sitting underutilised, and we could see significant rationalisation and cost saving through sharing. That sharing should not just be done at a Scottish Government level—it could also be done with local authorities or, indeed, UK Government bodies and agencies. We could start with international offices, for example.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Katy Clark) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform: empowering staff, service users and local com...
The Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Reform (Ivan McKee) SNP
I am delighted to open this afternoon’s debate on public service reform, which I believe will be the defining task of this session of Parliament.Public servi...
Andrew Baxter (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD) LD
I am glad that the cabinet secretary has got on to talking about prevention, which was a central tenet of the Christie commission report. I listened to the c...
Ivan McKee SNP
I will talk more about that in the course of my remarks, but, briefly, prevention is one of the four core principles of the Christie commission. When we publ...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland and Lothians West) (Con) Con
The Christie commission was established in 2011. We are talking about prevention, which was mentioned then, and about joined-up working, which was also menti...
Ivan McKee SNP
I do not know whether the member came into the debate late, but she should have heard the first part of my speech in which I listed a whole page of things th...
Willie Rennie (Fife North East) (LD) LD
I agree with all of that, but it sounds as if the cabinet secretary is trying to run the whole of Government by himself. Can he give us an idea of how he is ...
Ivan McKee SNP
I thank the member for his comments. He can rest assured that all my Cabinet colleagues are 100 per cent on board with this important agenda and the First Mi...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to speak to the amendment in my name, in which we set out very clearly, as we did in the election campaign just a few short weeks ago, that Labo...
Michael Marra Lab
If the cabinet secretary wants to tell me that vision, I will gladly hear it right now.
Ivan McKee SNP
Michael Marra talks about fiscal sustainability being the driver. That is one aspect, of course; however, as I articulated in my opening remarks, the driver ...
Michael Marra Lab
I will say two things in response to that. First, I am sure that the cabinet secretary is a keen advocate for that, but I would believe him a bit more if we ...
Malcolm Offord (West Scotland) (Reform) Reform
I congratulate Ivan McKee on his appointment. His role could be the most interesting in the Parliament in the next five years; if he delivers on the targets ...
Willie Rennie LD
What Malcom Offord says is interesting. From his extensive experience as a Conservative minister in the UK Government, what can he teach members about reform...
Malcolm Offord Reform
I will be delighted to cover that, because there are some insights that I was able to glean when I was a minister in the UK Government. Those are part of the...
Ivan McKee SNP
The New Zealand example is instructive. The big difference is that, as a country of 5 million people, New Zealand is a normal independent country. It does no...
Malcolm Offord Reform
Of course, the response to that is that Scotland spends £117 billion but raises £87 billion in taxes, so there is a £30 billion structural deficit that is pa...
Lorna Slater (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Green
Reforming our public services means making sure that they are sustainable for the long term. It also means ensuring that they are delivering what we need the...
Michael Marra Lab
It strikes me that that is precisely what Scottish Labour’s amendment describes. We must understand the shape of those public bodies, decide where there is d...
Lorna Slater Green
The Labour amendment specifically talks about cutting public bodies, but not about making sure that their remits do not overlap, which would involve changing...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP
I call Murdo Fraser, who joins us online.15:47
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I should explain that I am having to contribute remotely today due to a family issue; otherwise, I would be in the chamber.I welcome Ivan McKee to his new ro...
Ivan McKee SNP
I have been through this a number of times with Mr Fraser, but we will go back through it again for his benefit.First, what he calls the black hole is a proj...
Murdo Fraser Con
We will come on to waste in a moment—I have some suggestions to make in that regard—but I refer Mr McKee to today’s Accounts Commission report on local gover...
Ivan McKee SNP
Made a request to intervene.
Murdo Fraser Con
I will happily give way again if I get the time back.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP
Cabinet secretary, I am afraid that Mr Fraser is in his last minute or so.
Murdo Fraser Con
Perhaps the cabinet secretary could respond to that point in his winding-up speech. I will cover a couple of other points quickly.Fourthly, we need to focus ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP
You must wind up, Mr Fraser.
Murdo Fraser Con
We want to see that black hole in the public finances closed. It needs to close. We need to hear the meat of the Government’s argument on what public service...