Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 04 June 2026 [Draft]
04 Jun 2026 · S7 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Wealth Taxation for Public Services
Mr Flynn has provided me with an analogy with the Laffer curve: it went up and then it fell back down. I am not sure whether Mr Kerr would agree with that analogy. I am more than happy to have a discussion with him and, of course, with Mr McKee, the Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Reform, on the Laffer curve. I know that Mr Kerr takes the matter very seriously, as he has spoken about the Laffer curve on many occasions in Parliament.
It is the case that taxation helps us to improve people’s lives. However, for taxation to be truly effective, it must do more than raise revenue; it must also create the right incentives to work, to invest and to grow the economy. On that point, I hope that there is greater opportunity for political consensus.
Fair and progressive taxation is not a barrier to growth. In fact, it is the foundation of a productive economy—funding the infrastructure, supporting the workforce and providing the stability that businesses depend on. That is why—
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Katy Clark)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S7M-00249, in the name of Jenny Gilruth, on wealth taxation for public services. I invite members who wish to...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government (Jenny Gilruth)
SNP
I am conscious that the Minister for Public Finance, Hannah Mary Goodlad, will give her first speech in closing the debate. Hannah Mary’s victory in Shetland...
Craig Hoy (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
Con
I welcome the minister to her new role. How does she explain Scotland’s economic performance gap?
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
As Mr McKee is whispering in my ear, the economy is growing faster in Scotland than in other parts of the United Kingdom. In part, that is a result of our ap...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
One of the minister’s predecessors was famously completely unaware of the principles of the Laffer curve. What is her view on that theory and whether it impa...
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
Mr Flynn has provided me with an analogy with the Laffer curve: it went up and then it fell back down. I am not sure whether Mr Kerr would agree with that an...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Will the Deputy First Minister take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I will take Mr Marra, but I am conscious of the time.
Michael Marra
Lab
I appreciate that the Deputy First Minister has given way. In these matters, she and her predecessors have taken advice from a tax advisory group. Can she up...
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I think that Mr Marra is referring to the Scottish Fiscal Commission.
Michael Marra
Lab
No—the tax advisory group.
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
Okay. I would like to come back to Mr Marra in greater detail on that. I met the Scottish Fiscal Commission earlier today and we will continue that engagemen...
Willie Rennie (Fife North East) (LD)
LD
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I am happy to do so for Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie
LD
I have been listening carefully to the cabinet secretary’s contribution. She has, in passing, referenced the challenging fiscal set-up, but most of what she ...
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I regret that, like his colleague Mr Cole-Hamilton, Mr Rennie has perhaps not been listening to what I have said. To clarify on the record, I note that those...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Katy Clark)
Lab
I remind colleagues that there should be no interventions or interruptions during a first speech. I call Kim Schmulian to speak to and move amendment S7M-002...
Kim Schmulian (Glasgow) (Reform)
Reform
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I join other members in welcoming you and your colleagues to your new roles.I congratulate those members who have been r...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Labour welcomes the early opportunity to debate the scale of the fiscal challenge that the SNP has created for Scotland. The £4.7 billion gap between the spe...
The Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Reform (Ivan McKee)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Michael Marra
Lab
No, thank you. I am just getting started.We might all wish that the process would involve addressing the drug deaths crisis, which is the worst in the develo...
Ivan McKee
SNP
Mr Marra said that the fiscal gap is a consequence of the Government’s spending plans and that we have no plan for addressing it. I think that he is wrong on...
Michael Marra
Lab
I would certainly have to differ with Mr McKee on some of the analysis. The demand on our public services is recognised. It is clear from many reports by the...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
This is my first opportunity on the record to congratulate the new Deputy First Minister on her appointment. I am pleased that she has chosen to debate this ...
Craig Hoy
Con
Would Patrick Harvie concede the point that the very wealthy are also likely to be the most mobile and that they can therefore take their wealth and their as...
Patrick Harvie
Green
If the member reads the briefing that I have just mentioned, he will see that the vast majority of millionaires who were canvassed by that organisation are m...
Craig Hoy (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
Con
I think that we all know why this debate is taking place: the SNP Government and John Swinney are in hock to the Scottish Green Party. A party that does not ...
Patrick Harvie
Green
I am grateful to the member for taking my intervention. Does he agree in principle that abolishing poverty is a legitimate reason to impose taxation on those...
Craig Hoy
Con
Growing the economy is the legitimate way of eradicating poverty. If we grew the economy, we would not need the burgeoning benefits bill that the SNP has pre...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?