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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 March 2026 [Draft]

10 Mar 2026 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

My amendments in this group are in the vein of other amendments on organisational opt-out. I accord with much of what has already been said about individual opt-out for medical professionals, not least doctors—which we have covered and will cover further—and about organisational opt-out, which is particularly important for organisations that hold a certain ethos, which is usually based on faith.

I followed the debate on this aspect at stage 2, when Stuart McMillan lodged amendments that were co-designed with the Salvation Army, which has been referred to again this evening. Exchanges in the stage 2 debate on this aspect and on the services that the Salvation Army runs are perhaps not the best examples for trying to understand what we are talking about here—the need for an organisational opt-out. That is not to do a disservice to the Salvation Army’s excellent work, though.

Instead, it would be really useful—both this evening and throughout our remaining consideration of the bill—to deal with clear examples of where there would be significant challenges and problems, rather than deal in broad concepts that lead to comments such as those Mr Greer made about people being left to die in car parks. I really do not think that that is helpful. We need to focus on what actually happens in practice just now and on where the potential pitfalls might be.

We can consider a clear example in the religious orders of the Roman Catholic Church that deliver social care, which they have done for centuries. To use the example of the Little Sisters of the Poor, such provision has happened in Scotland in various ways for well over 160 years. The Little Sisters of the Poor order has care homes in Greenock, in my region, and it has a presence in the city of Glasgow. It also had a presence in places such as Dundee and Edinburgh from about 1863 until recently.

The religious order provides such care within its charism, which means that the entire delivery of that care is in line with the vows that its religious sisters have taken. We cannot decouple the two things. The administration and running of the care homes are done by religious sisters—for example, the registered manager of Holy Rosary care home in Greenock is a religious sister—so it is not as though those two things are entirely separate and set apart; they are interwoven and interlinked.

Needing to offer assisted dying through health and social care frameworks, or to advertise or undertake any of the discussions that might be required through the health and social care partnership, would therefore be in direct conflict with the charism and the ethos of such an organisation and the vows to which the sisters have committed themselves. In such a situation, an opt-out for that organisation would clearly be required.

We need to ensure that, at the outset of someone choosing a care home or a hospice facility, they know what the ethos, direction and view on assisted dying in that facility will be. It rather misses the point to say that someone would need to leave that facility and find another in a short space of time; that would not be true if it were clear who was opting out and who was opting in.

In the same item of business

14:27
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is stage 3 of the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill.In dealing with the amendments, members should have the ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Group 1 is on the meaning of “terminal illness”. Amendment 136, in the name of Daniel Johnson, is grouped with amendment 1. I call Daniel Johnson to speak to...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. It is with a great deal of trepidation that I rise to speak to and move the first amendment.I begin by paying tribute to Liam M...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I have great interest in Daniel Johnson’s amendment, for the reasons that he has already set out, but does he share my concern that we would end up with a su...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I am happy to deal with that point. I actually disagree with it, because I believe that we must be frank about the fact that all the decisions and judgments ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I wonder whether Daniel Johnson can tell us a little bit more about his reasoning for choosing the following form of words in amendment 1:“that treatment tha...
Daniel Johnson Lab
The member makes a fair point, but I would also argue that, without that, if there is the possibility of a treatment that would improve the person’s conditio...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) SNP
I think that we would all be drawn to the notion of making intolerable suffering part of the criteria—certainly, I am drawn to that—but we are doing more tha...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I would simply draw on the legislation in the two jurisdictions that I mentioned for comparison, both of which have similar or comparable forms of wording. I...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Ind) Ind
I thank Daniel Johnson for lodging the two amendments in this group.I rise to speak with serious concern about the bill, in particular with regard to its imp...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I am grateful to Jeremy Balfour for taking my intervention. We had some of these exchanges at stage 2, but I wonder whether he would reflect on the evidence ...
Jeremy Balfour Ind
I have to say that that is not the evidence that the disability community has presented to me, and it is not the evidence that is coming loud and clear from ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Ind) Ind
I thank the member in charge of the bill for the way in which he has taken it through Parliament, and I thank other members for the way in which they have en...
Martin Whitfield Lab
From a personal point of view, these amendments are swings and roundabouts. Having listened to Pam Duncan-Glancy’s powerful speech, my question to her is thi...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Ind
Martin Whitfield gets to the heart of why I am concerned about these amendments. I fundamentally believe that they have been drafted with good intentions and...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I listened carefully to Daniel Johnson when he spoke to his amendments. There is concern that they expand rather than restrict the definition of those who wo...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray) SNP
I would like to set out to Parliament the Scottish Government’s position on stage 3 of Liam McArthur’s Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bi...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
In the letter from UK ministers to the Westminster Scottish Affairs Committee, the phrases “training, qualifications and experience” and “qualifications and ...
Neil Gray SNP
I appreciate the intervention from Ross Greer. At this stage, I can say only that provisions in the bill may, or could, be outwith the competence of this Par...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
On the issue of the section 104 order, we have had sight of the letter that went to the Scottish Affairs Committee, which I note was not sent to MSPs directl...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Before the cabinet secretary responds, I remind members that we will come on to these issues, and it is very important that we continue to focus on the issue...
Neil Gray SNP
Of course, Presiding Officer. The issue that Mr Hepburn raises is important, because I know that MSPs are concerned about the elements that are to go through...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Can the cabinet secretary confirm that the use of a section 104 order means that part of the bill will be subject to secondary legislation?
Neil Gray SNP
How the section 104 process is to be delivered depends on the vehicle that is decided on. That could potentially be through secondary legislation, but it cou...
Liam McArthur LD
I start by echoing Pam Duncan-Glancy’s comments about the way in which colleagues across the board, irrespective of their position on the bill, have engaged ...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I ask the member to reflect on the evidence from the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Glasgow, which has talked about the subjectivity of diagnosi...
Liam McArthur LD
The assumption that the fact that somebody is going through the process after having made a request means that they would then inevitably and automatically s...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I thank everyone who has contributed to the debate. We all face a fundamental conundrum. We are being asked to ponder legislation in which the key definition...
Liam McArthur LD
Will the member give way?