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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 March 2026 [Draft]

10 Mar 2026 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

I thank the member in charge of the bill for the way in which he has taken it through Parliament, and I thank other members for the way in which they have engaged in the very sincerely personal debate. I know that members are taking very seriously the weight of these decisions. I also thank the legislation team, which has done a power of work in getting us through many amendments, and Parliament staff for the time that they will put in to help us get through the amendments.

As currently drafted, the bill defines someone as terminally ill

“if they have an advanced and progressive disease, illness or condition from which they are unable to recover and that can reasonably be expected to cause their premature death”.

That definition is, as my colleague Daniel Johnson has pointed out, incredibly broad. It includes many disabled people—indeed, as I said at stage 2, it could include me. I recognise that the amendments in this group try to provide greater clarity, but I do not believe that they resolve that fundamental issue. The provisions in them are highly subjective. I acknowledge that the member who has lodged them recognises that, but I will talk briefly about why that is important.

People’s experiences and their views about what they can live with change over time. They are shaped by the society in which we live, as well as our views of ourselves. Absolutely everything that I have, I have had to fight for. I had to fight to get overnight care so that I could go to the toilet, because the council had said that it would be cheaper to use incontinence pads. That fight in particular nearly broke me. I was ill, I was crying daily, and the pain from my advanced stage arthritis, which will likely result in early death, got worse, because I was worn down by fighting. I am one of the most empowered disabled people in the country—one of 129 people who have the privilege of sitting in this Parliament—and I have been broken by how hard it is to live, or to try to live, like everyone else. Even when pain is intolerable, it is the everyday ableism and discrimination that make me feel like I cannot go on.

14:45

When I have the support that I need and when I am not fighting, I and people like me can live well, and we can thrive. We believe that life, at that point, is tolerable and even well worth living. We even believe that in circumstances in which others do not think that a life like ours would be worth living.

I want to take a moment to talk about other peoples’ views on tolerating loss of function and why that is also a complex and subjective concept. People often portray the lives of disabled people or people who have lost function as being intolerable. Paralympian Tanni Grey-Thompson, who members recently had the opportunity to meet, was told by someone that they would rather be dead than incontinent, as she is. They said that to a Paralympian who sits in our House of Lords.

People question daily how people live with loss of function—for example, how I cope. They feel that it is acceptable to assume that a life like ours would be intolerable and not worth living. People question that regularly.

Presiding Officer, someone has to shower me. Someone has to take me to the toilet and help me in the toilet. Someone has to do almost everything for me. Many people find that to be undignified and are not afraid to tell me that. On occasion—for example, if I have no care or the toilet is not accessible—it can be quite undignified.

The point that I hope that I am making is that I have learned to live with the good, the bad and the ugly of my life. That does not mean that I am not scared of loss of function, as I imagine that everyone is—of course I am. I want to keep the little function that I have left, and I am worried about what would happen if I do not.

However, I have seen people face adversity on a daily basis, overcome it and enjoy life. With the right support, people can lead great lives despite otherwise intolerable pain or suffering. What is intolerable for me has moved over time and might not be tolerable for someone else. We must be very cautious about the message that will be sent if help, aids, adaptations, significant care from others and the inability to use the loo or shower by ourselves are circumstances that could be interpreted as indicators that someone’s life has become intolerable.

Others often view disabled people’s quality of life as being lower than the disabled people themselves do. When we ask people to rate their quality of life, even in difficult circumstances, disabled people often rate it higher than the professionals in their lives. That is an important fact for us to remember when we are considering the details in this bill.

In the same item of business

14:27
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is stage 3 of the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill.In dealing with the amendments, members should have the ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Group 1 is on the meaning of “terminal illness”. Amendment 136, in the name of Daniel Johnson, is grouped with amendment 1. I call Daniel Johnson to speak to...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. It is with a great deal of trepidation that I rise to speak to and move the first amendment.I begin by paying tribute to Liam M...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I have great interest in Daniel Johnson’s amendment, for the reasons that he has already set out, but does he share my concern that we would end up with a su...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I am happy to deal with that point. I actually disagree with it, because I believe that we must be frank about the fact that all the decisions and judgments ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I wonder whether Daniel Johnson can tell us a little bit more about his reasoning for choosing the following form of words in amendment 1:“that treatment tha...
Daniel Johnson Lab
The member makes a fair point, but I would also argue that, without that, if there is the possibility of a treatment that would improve the person’s conditio...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) SNP
I think that we would all be drawn to the notion of making intolerable suffering part of the criteria—certainly, I am drawn to that—but we are doing more tha...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I would simply draw on the legislation in the two jurisdictions that I mentioned for comparison, both of which have similar or comparable forms of wording. I...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Ind) Ind
I thank Daniel Johnson for lodging the two amendments in this group.I rise to speak with serious concern about the bill, in particular with regard to its imp...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I am grateful to Jeremy Balfour for taking my intervention. We had some of these exchanges at stage 2, but I wonder whether he would reflect on the evidence ...
Jeremy Balfour Ind
I have to say that that is not the evidence that the disability community has presented to me, and it is not the evidence that is coming loud and clear from ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Ind) Ind
I thank the member in charge of the bill for the way in which he has taken it through Parliament, and I thank other members for the way in which they have en...
Martin Whitfield Lab
From a personal point of view, these amendments are swings and roundabouts. Having listened to Pam Duncan-Glancy’s powerful speech, my question to her is thi...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Ind
Martin Whitfield gets to the heart of why I am concerned about these amendments. I fundamentally believe that they have been drafted with good intentions and...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I listened carefully to Daniel Johnson when he spoke to his amendments. There is concern that they expand rather than restrict the definition of those who wo...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray) SNP
I would like to set out to Parliament the Scottish Government’s position on stage 3 of Liam McArthur’s Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bi...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
In the letter from UK ministers to the Westminster Scottish Affairs Committee, the phrases “training, qualifications and experience” and “qualifications and ...
Neil Gray SNP
I appreciate the intervention from Ross Greer. At this stage, I can say only that provisions in the bill may, or could, be outwith the competence of this Par...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
On the issue of the section 104 order, we have had sight of the letter that went to the Scottish Affairs Committee, which I note was not sent to MSPs directl...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Before the cabinet secretary responds, I remind members that we will come on to these issues, and it is very important that we continue to focus on the issue...
Neil Gray SNP
Of course, Presiding Officer. The issue that Mr Hepburn raises is important, because I know that MSPs are concerned about the elements that are to go through...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Can the cabinet secretary confirm that the use of a section 104 order means that part of the bill will be subject to secondary legislation?
Neil Gray SNP
How the section 104 process is to be delivered depends on the vehicle that is decided on. That could potentially be through secondary legislation, but it cou...
Liam McArthur LD
I start by echoing Pam Duncan-Glancy’s comments about the way in which colleagues across the board, irrespective of their position on the bill, have engaged ...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I ask the member to reflect on the evidence from the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Glasgow, which has talked about the subjectivity of diagnosi...
Liam McArthur LD
The assumption that the fact that somebody is going through the process after having made a request means that they would then inevitably and automatically s...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I thank everyone who has contributed to the debate. We all face a fundamental conundrum. We are being asked to ponder legislation in which the key definition...
Liam McArthur LD
Will the member give way?