Committee
Criminal Justice Committee 04 March 2026 [Draft]
04 Mar 2026 · S6 · Criminal Justice Committee
Item of business
Criminal Justice System (Challenges for Session 7)
Robert Scott
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Yes—100 per cent. We come across that issue during all our inspections. When we carry out inspections, we tend to take views from the leadership of the organisation, but we also speak to firefighters in stations across the country. We take the views of many other stakeholders and also those working in corporate functions in the organisation, not only uniformed colleagues. We try to consider all those views and reflect them in our reports.Sometimes, when we are going through the consultation on our final reports, we get pushback from managers, who say, “Well, that’s not the situation. That’s not the truth. That’s not what is actually happening.” In reality, it might be what a firefighter in one station has told us. Our approach to that is that we never take the view of an individual as the gospel; we consider it in the round. If that view is reflected by multiple individuals in multiple locations, it starts to be, at the very least, a perception that needs to be addressed and an issue with internal communications, so we reflect that back to the service. We say, “If multiple people in multiple places are telling us that this is an issue and you’re telling us that it is not an issue, at the very least, there’s an issue with internal communications and you need to improve the systems or brief your staff on what is happening.”We do not shy away from that. We publish the views of those individuals, where they are triangulated and are from multiple sources. We also publish the view of management and leadership, where that is different, and we draw conclusions. That is the way that we approach the issue.To slightly defend the Fire and Rescue Service, although that is not my role, it has an incredibly small team working in the communications department. That reflects my earlier comments about the need to reinvest in parts of the organisation. As a benefit of reform, we have seen significant financial savings in the Fire and Rescue Service, with something like £900 million being saved since the advent of the single service. However, some areas of the organisation now need to be invested in. Communications, legal, prevention and training teams need additional resources, and that reinvestment is required as a matter of urgency. When firefighters believe one thing and management believes another, that is an example of where things fall down and where better communications are needed to resolve the issue.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
We have run considerably over time this morning. Before we move on to our next item of business, I propose that we drop the final two items, which are our re...
The Convener
SNP
Our next item is the first of a series of evidence sessions with the various inspectorates and commissioners within our remit. Our aim is to seek out their v...
Robert Scott (His Majesty’s Fire Service Inspectorate in Scotland)
Good morning. I am His Majesty’s chief inspector of the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service. My career in the service started quite some time ago in 1989. I joi...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much—that is very helpful. It is safe to say that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has gone through significant change over the decades—fr...
Robert Scott
As you say, there has been change over quite some time, and during my time in the service, I was involved in that reform process. It is very pleasing to see ...
The Convener
SNP
That is very helpful. We have regular engagement with the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service and the Fire Brigades Union, as you highlighted, and I am interest...
Robert Scott
We have not carried out a specific thematic inspection on that issue. However, when we have carried out our service delivery area inspections in the east, th...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you.
Liam Kerr
Con
Good morning, Mr Scott. I have a couple of quick questions. On service delivery, the committee has heard from the FBU and the Fire and Rescue Service about t...
Robert Scott
In the Fire and Rescue Service—this is predominantly the case in rural parts of Scotland—more than 280 of the 356 fire stations are staffed by on-call firefi...
Liam Kerr
Con
I want to follow up on that point. It is clear that a lot of work is being done to address the challenges at operational level, but the committee is keen to ...
Robert Scott
It is easy for me to make recommendations that are difficult to deliver against. If we had permanent full-time resource in pockets of Scotland available to a...
Liam Kerr
Con
As you have rightly said, being a firefighter is a very challenging job. Although everyone has enormous admiration for the courage of firefighters, it is a d...
Robert Scott
Workforce morale is difficult for us to measure, because we are not in and about every fire station in every part of Scotland. Morale will differ not only by...
Rona Mackay
SNP
Good morning. Mr Scott, you said that you have been a firefighter for many years. You mentioned climate change in your opening statement. I want to ask you a...
Robert Scott
That is a very interesting question. I can certainly speak from experience of seeing the very real change that climate change has brought about. The number o...
Rona Mackay
SNP
I completely agree with you: it is about collective responsibility and everybody has to play a part. It is encouraging to know that the service is dealing wi...
Robert Scott
It is an ever-changing landscape. We carried out a review of the operational response to climate emergencies in 2023, and I am already thinking, three years ...
Rona Mackay
SNP
There is on-going evaluation that you have to keep doing.
Robert Scott
Yes. I referred earlier to the wildfire strategy, which has been worked up by colleagues across the Scottish Government, the service and other partners. Ther...
Rona Mackay
SNP
Finally, Glasgow will host the Commonwealth games this year. I guess that you will say that everything is in place for that, and that the service will be com...
Robert Scott
We are reviewing the preparedness for the games. It is fair to say that, this time round, the games are a much smaller event than when they came to Scotland ...
Rona Mackay
SNP
Thank you—that is reassuring.
Fulton MacGregor
SNP
I have a general question. Do you have thoughts on or insights into how the fire service can bring together the views of the leadership and those on the grou...
Robert Scott
Yes—100 per cent. We come across that issue during all our inspections. When we carry out inspections, we tend to take views from the leadership of the organ...
Fulton MacGregor
SNP
Thank you.
Pauline McNeill
Lab
Good morning. I know that your statutory role is to review and inspect the statutory functions and performance of the Fire and Rescue Service, but it cannot ...
Robert Scott
That is a relevant point. To put this into context, my team in the inspectorate is very small. I have myself and three and a half full-time equivalent inspec...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
Yes. Thank you.
Sharon Dowey
Con
I will follow on from the questions that Rona Mackay asked. Can you give us more information about the procurement process? You talked about the equipment th...