Committee
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee 03 March 2026 [Draft]
03 Mar 2026 · S6 · Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Item of business
Draft Climate Change Plan
Dr Emily Nurse (Climate Change Committee)
Watch on SPTV
Thank you very much for having me here today.There are a few more things to say at the higher level. First, the climate change plan is more of an overarching plan, within which other plans are needed. In the absence of the upcoming plans that we are expecting, we do not have the detail that we need in order to understand everything. Emma Pinchbeck has highlighted the issue in relation to heat in buildings. We need to see the heat in buildings strategy and delivery plan, which we are expecting this year, as soon as possible. We also need to see the fourth land use strategy, the industrial decarbonisation programme and the route map for negative emissions technologies that has been alluded to.As I said, the CCP is an overarching plan. For the first time, it gives quantified emissions reductions by policy and proposal, which is a significant step forward, but the detail on what that really means and what the policies and the delivery will be in certain areas is missing. We have highlighted that that is the case in relation to buildings in particular.Emma Pinchbeck has talked about the shape of the buildings pathway, whereby very little will happen over the next 10 years. Progress is supposed to accelerate extremely rapidly over the third carbon budget period. We would expect a less risky approach to be taken, which would involve building on the positive progress that has been made so far in heat pump roll-out and building up the supply chains, rather than delaying and then catching up at the last minute, in order to meet the 2045 target for buildings and for net zero overall.I do not know whether we will talk about this in more detail later, but the other thing that I want to talk about is the monitoring and evaluation framework. It is welcome to look at emissions at a subsector and a sector level and to look at the deployment of low-carbon tech and other indicators of progress. However, what is missing from the plan is what change we expect to see in all those areas, which means that we will not be able to judge whether we are on track or whether more action is needed.For the final climate change plan to be credible, we would like it to lay out clearly what is expected, and we would like to see what underlies the modelling so that that can be monitored. For example, we do not have annual sectoral emissions pathways; they are given as carbon budget averages. We know that there is an 18-month lag in emissions reporting. The carbon budget averages are similar to the midpoint of the carbon budget, but it is not exactly the same. The midpoint of carbon budget 1 is 2028, but we will not get emissions data for that until very close to the end of the carbon budget, which ends in 2030. That is too late for any action to be taken. We need more annual data on emissions so that we can track it. I am not talking about targets; we need indicative data that we can track.We also need the indicators that Emma Pinchbeck mentioned. We managed to cobble some together in chapter 4 of our progress report, in which we look at indicators, but we are missing some key ones. For many areas, we do not have annual indicators. They are not all summarised in a convenient place, either. There are no indicators for low-carbon heat and none for heat pumps. We have already identified that area as being a significant risk. We need to know what is needed when it comes to rolling out low-carbon heat. We have called for indicators to be provided in the final plan so that we can properly evaluate and monitor progress. That will mean that, if anything goes off track, there will be time to implement contingency and back-up plans.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Con
Welcome back. The next agenda item is an evidence session with the Climate Change Committee on the Scottish Government’s draft climate change plan. The purpo...
Emma Pinchbeck (Climate Change Committee)
To start with the good news, we find that Scotland’s emissions decreased by more than 2.6 per cent between 2021 and 2023. Overall emissions have now more tha...
The Convener
Con
Thank you. We will move to questions. Given that part of the questioning will definitely revolve around agriculture, I remind members of my entry in the regi...
Emma Pinchbeck
The committee will know that, because of delays to the CCP, we were delayed in being able to do the analysis behind producing our own response to the CCP and...
The Convener
Con
My concern is that we will go into recess shortly and the final climate change plan is still to be laid. Unless I have got this entirely wrong, the whole pro...
Emma Pinchbeck
I certainly understand that it would be useful for you to have our report when you do your scrutiny. You will know this, but I put on the record that there i...
The Convener
Con
The draft plan has been laid and the consultations have been summarised, and our report will be considered and debated by the Parliament on Thursday this wee...
Emma Pinchbeck
We will never do a public hearing if we have not finished our analysis. That precedent is long established in the work of the CCC. As a statutory body, we ca...
The Convener
Con
Before we leave the subject, Emma, please clarify something so that I can understand. Did the Scottish Government, as your client, tell you to give us only a...
Emma Pinchbeck
We did not get an explicit instruction to come and speak to you publicly. There was discussion with officials about what we could do on both sides and it was...
The Convener
Con
Are you telling me that Scottish Government officials said that a private briefing was the appropriate way to do it? I am sorry for pushing you on that, but ...
Emma Pinchbeck
I am the chief executive of the CCC and, in a conversation with the Scottish Government, we determined that a private briefing would be the appropriate thing...
The Convener
Con
Thank you; that is helpful.Bob Doris wants to come in.
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
SNP
I will ask a question for clarity, in the hope that we can quickly move on to more substantive issues. I want to check that I am accurate in understanding th...
Emma Pinchbeck
Independence is a significant factor in evaluating choices such as this one about the appropriateness of not having a public evidence session on the basis of...
Bob Doris
SNP
:That was helpful—thank you.
The Convener
Con
Just to finish that point, before we move on to the next question: as the Government made clear, it is your client, and it therefore controlled that informat...
Mark Ruskell
Green
:I want to turn to the climate change plan itself. You will probably have had a chance to glance at the report that we published last week, in which we highl...
Emma Pinchbeck
I will give a high-level answer, and then I will bring in Dr Emily Nurse, who I think would like to talk to you about indicators.In general, we think that th...
Dr Emily Nurse (Climate Change Committee)
Thank you very much for having me here today.There are a few more things to say at the higher level. First, the climate change plan is more of an overarching...
Mark Ruskell
Green
:There are certainly a lot of hockey-stick-shaped graphs in the plan, by which I mean periods of slow growth followed by sudden shoot-ups in future carbon bu...
Dr Nurse
I will quickly say something about that, and then Emma Pinchbeck will come in. In our annual progress report, we look at that as best we possibly can. We loo...
Emma Pinchbeck
Thank you. I read the NZET Committee’s report on the CCP and noted that witnesses had suggested a sort of dashboard for indicators and that that is being tho...
Mark Ruskell
Green
:Do you have the resources to do that? If there was stronger engagement between the Climate Change Committee and subject committees in this Parliament—perhap...
Emma Pinchbeck
It would. Bluntly, our devolved funding does not really cover the statutory outputs that we already deliver across Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. We m...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
:I will ask a couple of questions that follow on from quite a lot of what you have just been talking about. Our committee and the Climate Change Committee we...
Emma Pinchbeck
I will provide an overview and I will then hand over to Emily, because there are quite significant differences in how we think about costs, and it will be wo...
Dr Nurse
You have covered most of it, Emma. We were quite confused by how the analysis was done on the costing side. It is clear that some bits are missed out, and it...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
:Thanks—that is useful. The challenge is going from very detailed information to actually communicating this stuff. You have talked about the invest-to-save ...
Dr Nurse
First, we need to have annual data. It makes sense to publish five-yearly carbon budgets because that is the legal target, but the pathway is indicative, rat...