Hansard

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA

The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-20813, in the name of Jenny Gilruth, on the Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment o...

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP

The legislation that comes before Parliament today does not sit in isolation; rather, as we have heard from some members this afternoon, it is part of the wi...

Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con

I thank the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee for its work on the bill, those who have given evidence and the organisations that provided ...

Jenny Gilruth SNP

We have heard a variety of views on the matter during the discussions on amendments this afternoon, and I am sure that we will hear more in the debate. Howev...

Miles Briggs Con

The courts will have to judge whether the Government has overstepped the mark in the legislation, given the contradictory UNCRC and European human rights pro...

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes) SNP

I wonder what the member thinks of a story that a constituent shared with me. She runs a Christian kids’ club in her local primary school. A little child was...

Miles Briggs Con

That is an individual case. Looking at how this will play out in the different scenarios that bureaucratic systems will look towards is very different.

Martin Whitfield Lab

Will the member take an intervention?

The Presiding Officer NPA

This will have to be very brief.

Martin Whitfield Lab

I am very grateful, Presiding Officer.The debate that we are having is about religious education and religious observance in a school setting, not about club...

Miles Briggs Con

The Deputy First Minister has pointed towards that club being held in a school, and I imagine that that is likely to be discouraged, given that scenario.I am...

Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab

As we have concluded the amendment stages of the bill, I join others in thanking the legislation team for their ever-present support with drafting amendments...

Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green

I begin by thanking a number of people who have helped us get to this point today. As ever, the legislation team are unsung heroes, expertly drafting amendme...

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD

I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am married to a Roman Catholic primary school teacher, and I was formerly the convener ...

The Presiding Officer NPA

We move to the open debate.19:30

Karen Adam (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP

The bill is about children’s rights showing up in the real world—in the school day and in the decisions that adults make that can change how a young person e...

Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con

Well, I think that the bill is a mess. It has struggled its way through the different stages in this Parliament, and today’s stage 3 amendments were evidence...

Jenny Gilruth SNP

Will the member take an intervention?

Stephen Kerr Con

Yes, of course.

Jenny Gilruth SNP

The issues around conflict were discussed at length in the evidence sessions that were led by the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, and i...

Stephen Kerr Con

I do not doubt that conflict exists currently, but it exists within a very clear framework of law. The bill is not a clear framework of law.

Jenny Gilruth SNP

We will have to disagree on that.

Stephen Kerr Con

I think that we will—the cabinet secretary is correct.Of course children must be respected and they must be heard, but the Conservatives also recognise the f...

Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Reform) Reform

I will be brief. I agree with Stephen Kerr that the bill is a bit of a dog’s breakfast. I approach the bill from the point of view of asking whether it will ...

The Presiding Officer NPA

We move to the winding-up speeches.19:41

Maggie Chapman Green

As I indicated earlier, my closing remarks will focus on part 2 of the bill. I remain uncomfortable with that part of the bill. What is happening is that, ju...

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes) SNP

I understand the member’s point. There has been quite a move in recent years to remove religious observance from school or to assume that to be secular is to...

Maggie Chapman Green

I am talking about part 2 of the bill, which is not about religious observance. However, on that point, we believe that there should be separation of church ...

Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab

I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests.I apologise to Karen Adam for having to step out during her speech. I will look it up, I as...

Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con

The debate has been thoughtful, and I thank members from all parties for their contributions. Everyone who spoke did so out of a genuine concern for children...