Hansard

15:39

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD

The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings of the Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) B...

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD

Group 1 is on the meaning and character of religious education and observance. Amendment 6, in the name of Maggie Chapman, is grouped with amendments 21, 11,...

Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green

I begin these stage 3 proceedings by thanking the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills and her team for the many conversations that we have had about t...

Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab

I will, of course, refer to much of what Maggie Chapman described in my contribution in this group, so I do not intend to detain the chamber in that regard.H...

Maggie Chapman Green

I disagree. RE and RO do not have to be intrinsically linked, even in a denominational school. They might be, but they might not be.

Paul O’Kane Lab

Tomorrow is Ash Wednesday, which is a good example. In Catholic schools across the country, children will learn about Lent. They will learn about it in an ac...

Maggie Chapman Green

In his contribution, Paul O’Kane separated the two things out. Learning about one thing is not the same as practising it, which is what we need to be clear a...

Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) SNP

I will restrict my comments to my amendment 21. I also declare an interest as a member of the Humanist Society Scotland.Amendment 21 would place a duty on Sc...

Paul O’Kane Lab

I add my thanks to all those who have been involved in the bill process. Scotland has a long tradition of providing parents and families with the option to s...

John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind

I take Paul O’Kane’s point that the two are interlinked just now. Is he arguing that the two have to be interlinked, or could they be separated?

Paul O’Kane Lab

Mr Mason makes a fair point. I am arguing that the two should be interlinked. My understanding from my own education is that the two things are interlinked f...

Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con

I will limit my remarks to amendments 22 and 22A, on requiring schools to provide parents and children with detailed information about planned religious obse...

Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab

I will make a short contribution in support of amendment 24, in the name of Paul O’Kane. We are debating legislation on the right of a child to withdraw from...

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP

As we have heard this afternoon, Maggie Chapman’s amendments 6 and 11 would replace references to “religious instruction” with the term “religious education”...

Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Reform) Reform

I genuinely want the cabinet secretary’s help here, because my decision hinges on what she understands by the word “instruction”, as opposed to what she unde...

Jenny Gilruth SNP

I accept Mr Simpson’s question and I recognise some of his concern. There is dubiety on that point from some stakeholders, as I have set out, and I have also...

Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab

The cabinet secretary is talking about the guidance. What thought has been given to the depth of the guidance? As former teachers, she and I will both have r...

Jenny Gilruth SNP

I am sure that Mr Whitfield and I both have fond memories of the many in-service training days that we spent as teachers. I draw his attention to amendment 2...

Paul O’Kane Lab

Notwithstanding the cabinet secretary’s technical point about amendment 24, she seems to want to accept it in spirit. Will the Government support that amendm...

Jenny Gilruth SNP

I very much appreciate the sentiment behind amendment 24. I make Mr O’Kane aware that I discussed the content of that amendment with the Scottish Catholic Ed...

Paul O’Kane Lab

The cabinet secretary supports amendment 21. Does she also recognise that the Scottish Catholic Education Service has suggested that the proposals that RO sh...

Jenny Gilruth SNP

I am not sure I would go as far as to recognise all of that critique, but I have discussed some of the challenges with SCES and directly with Barbara Coupar ...

Pauline McNeill Lab

I did not understand what you meant, cabinet secretary, when you spoke about the 1918 act. It is a century old, but it is still the law. It does not really m...

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD

Always through the chair.

Jenny Gilruth SNP

The point that I was making is one that I have discussed with SCES. There is an issue in relation to drafting. I would have preferred it if Mr O’Kane and I h...

Maggie Chapman Green

My amendments 6 and 11 seek to clarify the terminology and help to modernise the language in the 1980 act. Religious instruction is often considered to be th...

Stephen Kerr Con

To be clear, I did not say that it is a mistake. I said that it was a technical issue. I hope that Maggie Chapman accepts that.

Maggie Chapman Green

I think that I heard the word “mistake”, but I accept what Stephen Kerr has now said in his intervention.Amendment 22 would support children’s rights under a...

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP

The question is, that amendment 6 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.