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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 September 2025

25 Sep 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I welcome the minister’s intervention. Forgive me, but I should have started by welcoming him to his place and congratulating him again on his new role.

Of course we would agree that making the system much easier, more flexible and more responsive is crucial. However, as many people who gave evidence to the committee have told us, we do not need lengthy legislation that restructures organisations and comes with a costly price tag of tens of millions of pounds in order to do that. That money could be better spent on the front line, and on delivering opportunity for all, now.

More than half of Scottish businesses report skills shortages. Only one in six employers in Scotland take on apprentices and many say that the apprenticeships do not feel relevant in their sector or that they are not available for their industry. Apprenticeship completion rates are not what they need to be, disabled people are not accessing them equally and the gender imbalance persists.

Meanwhile, the pipeline into degree-level work and integrated learning is far too small; there were just over 1,000 graduate apprenticeships in Scotland in 2021-22, compared with more than 43,000 degree-level apprenticeships elsewhere in the United Kingdom.

Scotland can and must do better. It is clear that the status quo is not working. Those in the sector are telling us plainly that the system is strained and that change is needed.

The bill before us does not meet the moment. It moves responsibilities between public bodies without a convincing plan to expand capacity. There is no plan for school or employer pathways to be improved. It delivers no additional training places and it will not help to deal with today’s pressures in classrooms, workshops and labs.

If we get this wrong, projects slow, costs rise and opportunity narrows. If we get it right, we can unlock growth, wages and living standards across Scotland. That is the choice that is in front of us today. I will set out where Scottish Labour stands on it.

We support the ambition to make the system more responsive. We share the goal of a coherent, demand-led approach that puts learners and employers first. However, we cannot support a lengthy, costly rejig of quangos over delivery of opportunity now. The Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill is an organisational restructure that is pulling resource to the centre at a time when we should be using every pound and every ounce of focus for delivery on the ground in the regions of Scotland.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-19027, in the name of Ben Macpherson, on the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Sc...
The Minister for Higher and Further Education (Ben Macpherson) SNP
I am pleased to open today’s debate on the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill as my first contribution to parliamentary...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I welcome Ben Macpherson to his new role. When he met Dr Liz Cameron from the Scottish Chambers of Commerce, did she express her strong opposition to the bil...
Ben Macpherson SNP
My engagement with the Chambers of Commerce and with Dr Liz Cameron has been extensive over my years as an MSP, and I respect her and the organisation very m...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Does the minister accept that Universities Scotland and others have said that those changes could happen now, and that there is money associated with the bil...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I was pleased to speak with Universities Scotland yesterday, and I was pleased to see the support for the bill that it issued in advance of today’s debate.
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member give way?
Ben Macpherson SNP
I need to make some progress, but thank you. At its core, the bill intends to make impactful changes to ensure that funding goes directly to where it matter...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
Will the minister give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The minister should be starting to conclude his remarks.
Ben Macpherson SNP
We want to consider what improvements can be made to the range of different models for vocational pathways so that we can build on good practice and protect ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Douglas Ross to speak on behalf of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. 15:07
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Education, Children and Young People Committee about our scrutiny of the Tertiary Education and T...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call on Miles Briggs to open on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives. 15:15
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I welcome the minister to his role, as I did on Tuesday. I also thank Graeme Dey for his constructive work on the bill both cross party and with the Educati...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
This morning.
Miles Briggs Con
Oh—this morning. The work that the school is undertaking with young people in that part of the capital—especially those with attendance challenges—is exempl...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Miles Briggs Con
Yes, very briefly.
Daniel Johnson Lab
Although some sectors might well value the delivery of the skills system through alternative provision, specifically private provision, is there not also a r...
Miles Briggs Con
Yes, and I will come on to that. That is, as the committee highlighted, one of the main concerns. According to Audit Scotland’s report “Scotland’s colleges ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Pam Duncan-Glancy to open on behalf of Scottish Labour. 15:22
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
We have a proud history of skills in Scotland. Our people are among the most talented in the world, and we punch above our weight when it comes to our contri...
Ben Macpherson SNP
As I outlined in my opening remarks, there is a shared understanding that, across the chamber, we need to make improvements throughout the country. Does the ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I welcome the minister’s intervention. Forgive me, but I should have started by welcoming him to his place and congratulating him again on his new role. Of ...
Ben Macpherson SNP
Made a request to intervene.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Presiding Officer, do I have time to take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give you a bit of time back.
Ben Macpherson SNP
It would be helpful for me at this juncture to understand whether the parties that are opposing the bill today have a determination to work with the proposed...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
We are, of course, always happy to work with members across the chamber during the progress of any bill and to improve any piece of legislation. We will not ...