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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 September 2025

25 Sep 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Yes, and I will come on to that. That is, as the committee highlighted, one of the main concerns.

According to Audit Scotland’s report “Scotland’s colleges 2024”, colleges face increasing financial challenges and a lack of clarity on their role from ministers, which hinders reform and sustainability. Funding has decreased in real terms since 2021, forcing colleges to cut costs and staff. It has been well documented that, under this Scottish Government, we have seen the loss of more than 100,000 college places.

I have met representatives from colleges across Scotland, and they expressed real concern about the limits that college credits are putting on many institutions. Indeed, the waiting lists for people to get on to courses often mirror directly the skills shortages that face our local and national economies.

Therefore, I believe that we need a review of college credits and a more agile delivery of credits for courses that are clearly needed in our economy today, net zero being one of them. Many meetings are taking place in the Highlands, for example, to discuss that very issue. Colleges Scotland states in its briefing that

“there is nothing else on the horizon which would bring significant change to the apprenticeship landscape in particular: this needs reform and colleges can support more people to gain an apprenticeship”.

During the committee’s evidence taking, it felt as though the Scottish Government did not have a vision of where it wanted apprenticeships in our country to go. I feel that the bill has not provided a route map for a genuine transformation of the delivery of apprenticeships. Fundamentally, the Government has not answered the question of what is wrong with the system; after all, we are currently delivering 25,000 apprenticeships when, last year, the demand was for between 35,000 and 40,000, according to the number registered.

The potential loss of the apprenticeship advisory board, as Douglas Ross mentioned, would have represented a backwards step, so I welcome some of the changes that the Government has outlined in that regard. However, there is nothing in the bill that focuses on the skills shortages that our national and local economies face. There is also nothing about targets that will help achieve the skills, the jobs and, ultimately, the economic growth that we hope that they will drive.

We must acknowledge the significant and important contribution of private training providers, particularly in the delivery of certification and registration services. Universities Scotland stated in its briefing that

“The current operation of the framework approach for new GAs effectively prevents universities from responding”

as well. I welcome what the minister has outlined, and I am sure that he will provide more details on graduate apprenticeships to members.

I agree with the concerns expressed by the Confederation of British Industry Scotland and the Scottish Chambers of Commerce, which were mentioned by Willie Rennie, that the bill has the potential to dismantle what already works and leaves employers in the dark in relation to the future of apprenticeships and the wider workforce system.

As Scottish Conservatives believe that the bill requires significant amendment, we will not be supporting it at decision time this evening. As drafted, it is problematic and poorly costed, and I believe that it represents a missed opportunity to take forward a radical and ambitious new approach to skills in Scotland.

That said, we believe that there is an opportunity here for the new minister, and I hope that he will genuinely work with MSPs from across the chamber to try to fix the bill. He will find an open door from Scottish Conservatives if he wants to do so, but we cannot support the bill at decision time.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-19027, in the name of Ben Macpherson, on the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Sc...
The Minister for Higher and Further Education (Ben Macpherson) SNP
I am pleased to open today’s debate on the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill as my first contribution to parliamentary...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I welcome Ben Macpherson to his new role. When he met Dr Liz Cameron from the Scottish Chambers of Commerce, did she express her strong opposition to the bil...
Ben Macpherson SNP
My engagement with the Chambers of Commerce and with Dr Liz Cameron has been extensive over my years as an MSP, and I respect her and the organisation very m...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Does the minister accept that Universities Scotland and others have said that those changes could happen now, and that there is money associated with the bil...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I was pleased to speak with Universities Scotland yesterday, and I was pleased to see the support for the bill that it issued in advance of today’s debate.
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member give way?
Ben Macpherson SNP
I need to make some progress, but thank you. At its core, the bill intends to make impactful changes to ensure that funding goes directly to where it matter...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
Will the minister give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The minister should be starting to conclude his remarks.
Ben Macpherson SNP
We want to consider what improvements can be made to the range of different models for vocational pathways so that we can build on good practice and protect ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Douglas Ross to speak on behalf of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. 15:07
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Education, Children and Young People Committee about our scrutiny of the Tertiary Education and T...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call on Miles Briggs to open on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives. 15:15
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I welcome the minister to his role, as I did on Tuesday. I also thank Graeme Dey for his constructive work on the bill both cross party and with the Educati...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
This morning.
Miles Briggs Con
Oh—this morning. The work that the school is undertaking with young people in that part of the capital—especially those with attendance challenges—is exempl...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Miles Briggs Con
Yes, very briefly.
Daniel Johnson Lab
Although some sectors might well value the delivery of the skills system through alternative provision, specifically private provision, is there not also a r...
Miles Briggs Con
Yes, and I will come on to that. That is, as the committee highlighted, one of the main concerns. According to Audit Scotland’s report “Scotland’s colleges ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Pam Duncan-Glancy to open on behalf of Scottish Labour. 15:22
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
We have a proud history of skills in Scotland. Our people are among the most talented in the world, and we punch above our weight when it comes to our contri...
Ben Macpherson SNP
As I outlined in my opening remarks, there is a shared understanding that, across the chamber, we need to make improvements throughout the country. Does the ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I welcome the minister’s intervention. Forgive me, but I should have started by welcoming him to his place and congratulating him again on his new role. Of ...
Ben Macpherson SNP
Made a request to intervene.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Presiding Officer, do I have time to take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give you a bit of time back.
Ben Macpherson SNP
It would be helpful for me at this juncture to understand whether the parties that are opposing the bill today have a determination to work with the proposed...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
We are, of course, always happy to work with members across the chamber during the progress of any bill and to improve any piece of legislation. We will not ...