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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 20 January 2026 [Draft]

20 Jan 2026 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill
Greer, Ross Green West Scotland Watch on SPTV

To some extent, Daniel Johnson makes a fair point, but I do not think that that is all on the SFC. A lot of that ultimately comes down to decisions made by Governments and Parliaments over a number of not just years but decades. The bill has also served as a way for us to strengthen the governance structures of the SFC.

There is one other area that I want to touch on before closing. I said at stage 1 that the Greens support the bill in part because we agree with the core premise, but also because of the opportunity to use the bill to address other issues. I think that we have been successful in some of those regards.

Many of our debates on the groupings of amendments at stage 2 were dominated by questions of fair work and standards for apprentices and for the staff of the education institutions. We have talked about the fact that nine of the previous 10 years saw industrial action in our college sector and the fact that many graduate teaching assistants in our universities are, in effect, working for less than the minimum wage because of how poor their salary is and how many hours they are, in practice, expected to work above what they are contracted to work. I think that we all want to address those issues, but we wrestled over the extent to which we can put funding conditions in legislation without straying into areas that are clearly reserved, such as employment law. It was not just about whether we can act; it was about whether we can act in and via legislation.

My starting point was the fact that, in 2021, we applied conditions to Scottish Government grants and contracts in relation to payment of at least the real living wage. The Government quite fairly put it back to me that that was not set out in legislation but was achieved through a change of policy. I am glad that, on that point, as the minister said, we came to an agreement, which was announced last week, to expand that approach in further and higher education.

Two fair work criteria are currently conditions of funding: the real living wage and appropriate worker voice—that is, trade union recognition. Now, the other five criteria will also be requirements. Those criteria are investing in workforce development, no inappropriate use of zero-hours contracts—I would suggest that all zero-hours contracts are inappropriate, but there you are—action to tackle the gender pay gap and create a more diverse and inclusive workforce, offering flexible and family-friendly working practices for all workers from day 1 of employment, and opposing the use of fire-and-rehire practices. The fact that those criteria will now be conditions of funding is a significant improvement.

I credit Unite, the GMB, Unison and especially the Educational Institute of Scotland Further Education Lecturers Association—EIS-FELA—which has campaigned on the fair work issue for a very long time. I want to credit in particular the EIS-FELA members at Forth Valley College, who, as a result of what happened at their institution, led the national campaign against fire and rehire in the college sector and won a really important victory that, in many ways, paved the way for this.

I do think, as Maggie Chapman said, that the bill was something of a missed opportunity for us to address wider issues of the governance of individual institutions, both colleges and universities. We are more than a decade on from the 2015 act and there is a need for us to look again at governance in the sector.

However, as I said a moment ago, we can legislate to address structural issues, and both Audit Scotland and the Withers report clearly laid out structural issues in the system. By aligning the system better, we will address some of those issues. Through this bill, once we pass it, we will have legislated to somewhat address the issues around strategy and direction, but, again, it is not appropriate to do all of that through legislation.

Much as the Greens are comfortable about voting for the bill today, the challenge—not for this Government, but for the Government that will be in place after May—is to set out a very clear strategic direction for our colleges and universities in particular. What are we trying to achieve? It is about not just our economic needs, but our social and environmental needs, because it is only with that clear direction that colleges, in particular, can thrive and succeed, as they have given us ample evidence of doing.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-20484, in the name of Ben Macpherson, on the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Sc...
The Minister for Higher and Further Education (Ben Macpherson) SNP
I am pleased to open this stage 3 debate, and I want to start by thanking my predecessor, Graeme Dey, for the remarkable amount of work that he did and for p...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
It is good to hear the minister’s thanks to Skills Development Scotland, but will he acknowledge that the Scottish Government left those working for Skills D...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I appreciate the member’s point. That is not my understanding of the situation, but, of course, I was not the minister during that period. However, I can say...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
The minister has said that he has thought about the bill a lot. I ask him to put on the record whether, at any point since he became minister, he gave any co...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I was educated in our system in Scotland to believe in the importance of critical thinking, and that will be crucial in the period ahead. Indeed, I apply it ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
One of the missed opportunities with this bill was the opportunity to fully implement the recommendations from the von Prondzynski review in 2012. Some of us...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I thank the member for her intervention and her engagement on these matters, not just at stage 2 but more generally. The Government has considered what more ...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank the many organisations and businesses that have provided helpful briefings ahead of the stage 3 debate, and I also thank them for their work at stage...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank the many organisations and businesses that have provided helpful briefings ahead of the stage 3 debate, and I also thank them for their work at stage...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I reiterate my thanks to the Minister for Higher and Further Education for the way that he has approached the bill, which has been very useful. There has bee...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
The Greens will support the bill this evening, for the reasons that I outlined at stage 1 although, at that point, I expressed some scepticism that I will co...
Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I apologise if the member has moved on from the subject but, if we do not have a clear strategy, how will we know that the outcomes will be met?
Ross Greer Green
In part, ministers will have a far greater ability to direct the strategy when more of the objectives and purposes are sitting under one roof. There is a nee...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
The context for the bill is the Audit Scotland report from some years ago. That report was scathing in its criticism of all those involved in the sector and ...
Douglas Ross Con
It is my understanding that, just last month, SDS wrote to the minister to set out alternative views and opinions on possible reforms that would not be as co...
Willie Rennie LD
Douglas Ross is probably right, but I fear that it is too late to do that in this debate—we are so far down the track now. I hope that there is pragmatic par...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the open debate. 20:30
Jackie Dunbar (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
As in the stage 1 debate, I thank the committee clerks, the witnesses, the ministers—former and present—and the officials. I also thank my fellow committee m...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Far be it from me to use my limited time to stand up and defend the Labour Party, but I have to take exception to what Jackie Dunbar said. She commented that...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank the member for taking this intervention, as I tried and hoped to get to my mouse quickly enough to intervene on Jackie Dunbar earlier. I wanted to as...
Douglas Ross Con
I agree with Pam Duncan-Glancy’s points. To stick with this issue for a little longer, I say to Jackie Dunbar that she should be less concerned about the mo...
Daniel Johnson Lab
As well as the lack of people giving encouraging evidence to the Education, Children and Young People Committee, the Economy and Fair Work Committee heard fr...
Douglas Ross Con
It should, and the Education, Children and Young People Committee put that in our report, too. My time is almost up, but I want to raise a couple more issue...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to winding-up speeches. There is a little time in hand. 20:39
Ross Greer Green
In my opening speech, Roz McCall intervened on me with what I think was a very fair challenge. If there is no clear strategic direction, how are we going to ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Ross Greer Green
I will, in just a second. I point to an amendment of mine that was agreed to at stage 2 of the bill that requires the SFC to have due regard to the Governme...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I accept Ross Greer’s point about function, to a degree. However, there is also the SFC’s ability to combine functions. If we look at the experience of the u...
Ross Greer Green
To some extent, Daniel Johnson makes a fair point, but I do not think that that is all on the SFC. A lot of that ultimately comes down to decisions made by G...