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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee 16 December 2025 [Draft]

16 Dec 2025 · S6 · Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Item of business

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Gilruth, Jenny SNP Mid Fife and Glenrothes Watch on SPTV

Following our discussion, I have discussed that matter in detail with officials. I give Mr O’Kane assurance that they have already started engagement with the Scottish Catholic Education Service, but we also want to engage ahead of stage 3 on how that will work in relation to the points that he raised about denominational schools. I am also mindful of my engagement with SCES on the issue, during which it pointed out that we would be talking about extremely small numbers of pupils in a Catholic education setting, because parents will have chosen to send their children to that school for faith-based reasons. However, we do not think that it is insurmountable that we will be able to address those issues at stage 3. I hear the concerns that the member has raised, and I hope that he takes some reassurance from the fact that we are already engaging with the Scottish Catholic Education Service. However, I am mindful of the committee’s report at stage 1, which recommended that we clarify the differences between RO and RME, and that is what we have sought to provide. I support Maggie Chapman’s amendments, and I encourage members to do the same. Stephen Kerr’s amendment 9A would explicitly state that the section inserted by amendment 9 applies to religious education in denominational schools as well as non-denominational schools. I do not think that that amendment is necessary, because the provisions in the bill already apply to both denominational and non-denominational schools. Moreover, there is a risk that amendment 9A would create confusion regarding whether other provisions in the bill and relevant sections of the 1980 act apply generally to denominational schools, which they do. I therefore hope that Stephen Kerr might not press the amendment—or, rather, that Tess White will not press it on his behalf. As we have heard, amendment 20 would require separate treatment of parental requests to withdraw a pupil from religious observance and RME respectively. Again, I do not consider that amendment to be necessary. However, if Maggie Chapman’s amendments are agreed to, part of that amendment is in effect obsolete, given that the right to withdraw from RME would be removed. It is worth pointing out that schools already make the differences between religious observance and RME clear to parents in discussions about withdrawal, and withdrawals are not always made from both. The legal requirement that exists to consider requests separately might result in additional burdens on schools, pupils and parents by requiring additional paperwork. I therefore encourage members to resist amendment 20. Finally, in relation to amendment 44, which provides the legal definitions of religious observance and RME, which is referred to in the 1980 act and therefore in the amendment as “instruction in religion”. As I said, I recognise the importance of drawing a clear distinction between RO and RME. Providing those definitions in legislation would reduce future flexibility for course content to evolve over time, as it does. It is worth remembering that the provisions in the bill originate from the 19th century and that the curriculum has evolved in multiple ways since that time, even since the passing of the 1980 act. Furthermore, definitions of religious observance and RME are already provided in the non-statutory guidance. Those definitions differ from the definitions that are listed in Mr Kerr’s amendments and, as they reflect Government policy, are preferable. Amendment 44 is therefore unnecessary and likely to create confusion, so I cannot support it. In summary, I encourage members to vote for amendments 9 to 17 and 19. I hope that Tess White, on behalf of Stephen Kerr, will not press amendments 9A, 20 and 44.

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee 16 December 2025 [Draft]

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