Committee
Social Justice and Social Security Committee 11 December 2025
11 Dec 2025 · S6 · Social Justice and Social Security Committee
Item of business
Social Security Independent Advocacy Service
Andrew Bartlett
Watch on SPTV
Yes. We have been sent the employee liability information. I am not a human resources specialist, but I have HR specialists as part of the team. We have all the paperwork that we require from VoiceAbility. We are doing a consultation. It is a non-unionised organisation, so we have a meeting next week and another the following week with representatives.
TUPE is always a bit of a scary time. There are differences between our organisations. For example, we are a four-day-week organisation, as we have been for many years. However, we have to make sure that people’s rights are respected, so they will come over on their current terms and conditions on 31 January, and those rights are protected as we go forward. Some people will want to change to our terms and conditions if an opportunity comes up, which they are always welcome to do. We have done TUPE in the past, both in and out, so we have experience with it.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Convener
SNP
Agenda item 3 is an evidence session on the social security independent advocacy service, which is due to be delivered by Advice Direct Scotland from January...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Welcome to the committee, Andrew. Advice Direct Scotland currently operates across a range of subject areas. I am interested to know what experience Advice D...
Andrew Bartlett (Advice Direct Scotland)
We already provide a nationwide service. We are efficient, we are customer centred, and we will absolutely put the advocacy partners at the centre of our adv...
Carol Mochan
Lab
That is helpful. At £3.2 million, the contract value is lower than the previous one. Have you got a plan in place to ensure that the lower value will not mea...
Andrew Bartlett
Yes. We are committed to delivering a minimum of 60,000 hours’ worth of advocacy. That includes travel and administration. There is a mechanism that we can e...
Carol Mochan
Lab
Thank you.
Marie McNair (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
SNP
Having engaged with you before, Andrew, I know that your service has considerable experience in providing advice. What do you consider to be the defining dif...
Andrew Bartlett
They are different. Our head of internal learning and development is a trained advocate, so we have experience of advocacy within the organisation. We want t...
Marie McNair
SNP
You are already providing advice services. What systems do you have in place to avoid conflicts of interest between the advocacy service and the services tha...
Andrew Bartlett
The advocacy service will be on its own platform, if that makes sense—we are not just bundling it into something that we already have. We are building a besp...
Marie McNair
SNP
As a digital organisation, how will you deliver face-to-face advocacy in local communities? Earlier, you mentioned the TUPE transfer of the VoiceAbility staf...
Andrew Bartlett
Yes. We are not looking to make anybody redundant. We expect everyone who comes over to carry on with the work that they are doing and to support the advocac...
Marie McNair
SNP
I certainly welcome that assurance. None of us can work in silos. I look forward to working with you.
Claire Baker
Lab
I am pleased that you have confirmed that TUPE is being used for the advocates who worked for the previous organisation. That organisation employed 48 advoca...
Andrew Bartlett
Yes. We have been sent the employee liability information. I am not a human resources specialist, but I have HR specialists as part of the team. We have all ...
Claire Baker
Lab
It is good that you have the intention to keep the staffing complement that was there before. Carol Mochan asked about the value of the contract being lower...
Andrew Bartlett
Yes. Actually, we are recruiting. At the minute, there is only one person for the whole of the Highlands and Islands, for example. That is simply not practic...
Claire Baker
Lab
That is welcome. The contract starts on 31 January, so there is quite a lot to do before that date, given that you are implementing TUPE, mapping and all th...
Andrew Bartlett
There is an awful lot to do. However, we have started the technology build and we are having regular conversations with the Scottish Government team. We have...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Social Security Scotland is operating on a larger scale than when VoiceAbility started in January 2022, so contending with demand will be one of the major is...
Andrew Bartlett
At the moment, we do not entirely know what the demand will be, because the service is not known everywhere. We have committed to provide 60,000 hours of adv...
Alexander Stewart
Con
You might well be anticipating that there will be high initial demand because people will want to ask for or require some support from you. That might have a...
Andrew Bartlett
Absolutely. It is about being practical. Looking at where the advocates live, I can see big gaps, particularly on the west coast of Scotland, although not in...
Alexander Stewart
Con
How will you work with Social Security Scotland and other partners to get referrals for the service and provide the support that individuals require?
Andrew Bartlett
Social Security Scotland has its own teams, and they will go into homes and help people to fill in paperwork and so on. That is not exclusive to people with ...
The Deputy Convener
SNP
I have a supplementary question on the referral process. If an advocacy worker is in someone’s house carrying out the contracted work on adult disability pay...
Andrew Bartlett
Two things. If the person has another advocate who is working with them, that advocate may run with it. If there is an issue that my welfare team can resolve...
The Deputy Convener
SNP
A wraparound welfare advice and support package would certainly be welcome.
Andrew Bartlett
Absolutely.
The Deputy Convener
SNP
There could be a loss of identity here. There is one stream for universal credit, another stream for another suite of income-based benefits and another strea...