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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 19 November 2025

19 Nov 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Skills System
Johnson, Daniel Lab Edinburgh Southern Watch on SPTV

That intervention from the Deputy First Minister ignores the fact that the number of people who are economically inactive is higher in Scotland than in the UK. Let us have that full and frank conversation—the Government, however, simply refuses to be full and frank.

At the previous election, the Scottish National Party promised 30,000 modern apprenticeship starts per year by the end of this parliamentary session, but it has failed. Only 25,500 places were funded this year, which is a shortfall of 4,500 and is 8,500 short of the 34,000 places that industry says that it needs to meet demand.

We have growing sectors in our economy that are crying out for more apprentices. Scottish Engineering has said:

“Scotland needs an additional 58% of new engineers across 31 key roles by the end of 2027, over three quarters of which are delivered by apprenticeship programmes.”

According to the Construction Industry Training Board, the construction workforce in the south-east of Scotland alone is 20,000 people short of industry demand. Those two sectors are critical to Scotland’s economy. The construction sector is the literal source when it comes to building the growth that we need, but it is being hamstrung by a system that fails to prioritise according to its needs.

It is not about money; it is about choices. We know that the money that Scottish businesses pay through the apprenticeship levy far exceeds what the Scottish Government chooses to spend on skills. Scottish firms pay a payroll tax on the premise that the funds will go into workforce development, only for the Scottish National Party Government to plunder that money to spend it on mitigating its financial incompetence. Last year, the shortfall between what the Scottish Government was granted through the block grant and what it actually spent was £62 million. That is an estimate, because the Scottish Government will not publish the figure, and I note that the Conservatives have a different figure. We simply need that clarity. If we want a full and frank discussion, let us have transparency on the funding that is being delivered through the levy.

Confidence in the Government is low, and apprenticeship numbers are not keeping up with demand. The Government has scrapped the flexible workforce development fund and dismantled industry-facing bodies such as the Scottish Apprenticeship Advisory Board and Skills Development Scotland. We need a new and genuinely lifelong skills system that starts at school, opens up routes to work for young people in education and helps to retrain and upskill experienced workers so that they can take advantage of new and developing opportunities and industries.

Evidence suggests that between the ages of six and eight, children begin to form occupational aspirations. From the age of nine to 13, they begin to dismiss potential roles on the bases of gender, esteem or competence. As things stand, more than half of all young Scots who do not go to university do not have a clear line of sight to good jobs and training. By the time they arrive at the point at which they make choices about their future, they are disempowered by an education system that is decoupled from the world of work.

It does not have to be like that. In Greater Manchester, Mayor Andy Burnham is developing the Greater Manchester baccalaureate, which involves partnering with industry to deliver the combination of subjects and work experience that will set young people on a pathway to good work and training. In my constituency, Liberton high school has, despite the system, partnered with employers such as Balfour Beatty to pioneer a small-scale construction pathway that gives young people early hands-on experience in construction. With a clear vision that everyone matters, Liberton high school is doing its bit to get more young people into well-paying construction jobs, but it is the exception, and the programme is in doubt because of a lack of funding.

We need to get every part of the education system thinking about skills and the world of work. That is why, by working with industry to introduce clear pathways from school into jobs, training and education, a Scottish Labour Government would give every pupil the opportunity to fulfil their potential. Rapid changes in our economy—in technology, the climate and, imperatively, demographics—mean that we must stop viewing skills as a thing that people do once at the start of their careers.

Our modern apprenticeships programme is genuinely first class, but it is slow to adapt to economic changes and is inaccessible to learners who are already in the workforce. That is why we need to give learners who look to upskill or retrain the ability to do so while in work through a modular system that is all underwritten by student finance and that supports them in the same way that it supports those who do a university degree.

It has been eight years since the Scottish Government’s enterprise and skills review outlined serious deficiencies in the skills system and three years since James Withers published his review, but instead of fixing the problems that users are experiencing, the Government’s only foray into the skills base has been the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill, the only function of which is to shift responsibilities from one agency to another. That simply will not meet the challenges that we face over the next three to five years, as outlined at the beginning of my speech.

I move,

That the Parliament believes that Scotland’s skills system is letting down young people and holding back economic growth, and further believes that there needs to be a new partnership between education and industry, with better careers advice in schools central to it, and new Scottish industrial pathways to link school subjects to future careers, guaranteed industrial placements for secondary school pupils including in industry and a clearing system for apprenticeships, so that good candidates do not fall out of the system.

15:09  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-19756, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on Scotland’s skills system. I invite members who wish to participa...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Interruption. Apologies, Presiding Officer. There were some odd flashing lights on my console—hence my swift manoeuvre. I have a speech prepared, but I firs...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes) SNP
I am listening to the member with interest, and he will know that I believe that the scale of opportunity in Scotland is such that we need to have a skills p...
Daniel Johnson Lab
That intervention from the Deputy First Minister ignores the fact that the number of people who are economically inactive is higher in Scotland than in the U...
The Minister for Higher and Further Education (Ben Macpherson) SNP
Excuse me—I lost my voice slightly at Hampden last night, as I am sure much of the country did, across different parts of our society. What we witnessed last...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Does the minister not at least agree that the fact that 4,500 fewer people than the Government’s own targets are getting an apprenticeship means that young p...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I have stated before, as have colleagues, that we have an ambition to grow the number of modern apprenticeships, graduate apprenticeships and foundation appr...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I agree entirely with what the minister has just said. Nonetheless, I was at a conference at Edinburgh Napier University on Monday at which people were sayin...
Ben Macpherson SNP
That is a significant point that gets to the heart of the skills agenda that we are undertaking through a programme and a set of primary legislative changes....
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
The minister is concluding.
Ben Macpherson SNP
This year, we also have a record number of more than 110,000 vocational and technical qualification awards. There is more to do. That is why the primary leg...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I remind members who wish to participate in the debate but have not already pressed their request-to-speak buttons to please do so now. 15:15
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
When I saw that it was to be Labour business today, I thought that Daniel Johnson might have chosen to debate next week’s tax rises by the Chancellor of the ...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I challenge Mr Fraser and colleagues on that. The current system is working very well for many people, including many employers and many learners. Is it nece...
Murdo Fraser Con
I say to Mr Macpherson that he should go back and review the evidence to which I referred, because it gives a somewhat different picture. Part of my concern...
Kate Forbes SNP
Will the member give way?
Murdo Fraser Con
I think that I am in my last minute.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You are.
Murdo Fraser Con
I apologise to the Deputy First Minister. Whereas employers in England can directly access those funds, that is not the case in Scotland. The latest data sh...
Lorna Slater (Lothian) (Green) Green
The Economy and Fair Work Committee has heard over and over again about the advantages of workplace learning, not only for traditional vocational careers but...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude.
Lorna Slater Green
Not only are most apprentices men, but women apprentices are consigned to lower-paying sectors and lower-paying jobs. It is worth prioritising and correcting...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
The good news is that there is huge demand for apprenticeships. It is fantastic that so many people are willing to learn and that we have excellent people wh...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 15:28
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
When I looked at the motion and the amendments for the debate, I could see in each a lot of positives on which we could agree. It would be great if political...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) SNP
I thank Daniel Johnson for the debate. It is enormously important that we discuss this issue in the chamber, to ensure that not only our young people, but th...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
MSPs have described how they feel that Scotland’s skills system is failing too many young people and is holding back our economic growth. There is a need for...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
As always, I am delighted to speak in support of our education and skills sector. It is great to see Labour at long last accepting what I and my colleagues o...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
It is a great pleasure to speak about the vital work that is under way across our education and skills system, which is helping people of all ages to reach t...