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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 16 December 2025 [Draft]

16 Dec 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill
Greer, Ross Green West Scotland Watch on SPTV

In my opening speech, I mentioned the value of learning about our natural environment in our natural environment and the knowledge and skills that are accumulated through that. I want to build on that and return to a point that I made to the minister, when she made a statement on the bill in September, I believe. My point was about the need for our qualifications system to catch up. Today, the Parliament will make a clear statement about the value that we place on outdoor education—not just on residential outdoor education but on all outdoor education—and I do not think that our qualifications system has yet caught up with that. There is much more that it can and should do. For example, on specific qualifications, England has recently established GCSE and A-level qualifications in natural history, but we do not yet have an equivalent in Scotland.

We have discussed the meta skills that are developed through outdoor education, such as team working and communications skills, but our qualifications system does not yet fully recognise those. I encourage the Government to say that the bill must be the start of that process and that one of the next steps is about reforming the qualifications system to ensure that the full range of subjects is available—I encourage the creation of a natural history qualification—and that we find a way, whether through Professor Hayward’s recommendations or some other means, to formally recognise the kind of meta skills that the residential outdoor education experience can develop; it can have a transformational impact on a young person’s skills in areas such as teamwork and communication.

The Parliament has an extensive history—for the entirety of its existence, really—of legislating for rights and entitlements that we then struggle to fulfil. The Finance and Public Administration Committee has raised the issue more widely repeatedly in this parliamentary session. Much of the debate around the specifics of the bill has come back to ensuring that the residential outdoor education experience would be available for young people with additional support needs. They are one particular group of people in our society who are not having their rights consistently fulfilled and respected by our education system, so there is a challenge for us in that regard, which relates very much to the points that John Mason made about cost.

Helpful amendments were made at stage 2 and earlier today, to ensure that the cost of the bill is shared equally. We have achieved a balance between making reasonable requests of parents who can afford to make a contribution and the importance of avoiding a situation where families whose children have particularly complex additional support needs or families on lower incomes are forced to pay more than would be fair or than they would be capable of.

I cannot claim credit in any way, shape or form for having come to the solutions, so I congratulate colleagues, particularly Liz Smith, the minister and John Mason, for having made the relevant amendments to the bill. There is still a need for us to have a wider conversation about local government funding. If we want our young people to have the best start in life, we need to fund it like we mean it. It would be too much to hope that the last budget before the election will be the one that achieves a consensus, but, particularly in relation to this bill, there is still a huge amount of work to do in bringing the existing outdoor residential education estate up to the standards that we and those who work in it expect. The capital implications of that will still be really significant, and that is something that members in the next session of the Parliament will have to bear in mind.

Today, we are making a commitment that will have on-going costs associated with it, and it will be incumbent on all parties who vote for the bill to engage constructively when it comes to the budget, to ensure that on-going capital allocations are made where required.

It is worth reflecting briefly on the process of the bill and the frustration felt cross party at stage 1 about how the Government interacted with it, but we have moved on significantly from that, and I thank the Government for its engagement at stages 2 and 3. If we had much more of that in the final weeks of the Parliament, there would be far less pressure on our extremely strained legislative timetable. That kind of collegiate working should make it possible for us to get through the remaining bills of the session.

However, this will be a huge moment for Scotland’s young people, and I again congratulate Liz Smith, because, when we pass it today, their bill will unlock life-changing opportunities for so many children. It will be a proud moment for our Parliament, and we in the Green group will be proud to vote for it at decision time.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-20138, in the name of Liz Smith, on the Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill at stage ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Throughout all my 16 years as a secondary schoolteacher and my subsequent two decades as a parliamentarian, I have been firmly of the view that outdoor educa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
The Government will not have to pay the full amount, but I have read the supplementary financial memorandum and it does not give a figure for what the Govern...
Liz Smith Con
The costs have not changed since the original discussion of that issue. However, as John Mason knows, at stage 2 we added to the bill a period for its staged...
The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes) SNP
Many people will have been privileged, in their youth, to have enjoyed time away from home at a residential outdoor education facility, often in spectacular ...
John Mason Ind
I want to ask the minister the same question that I asked Liz Smith. The minister talked about cost. Does she have any idea what the Government might have to...
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
Throughout the bill process, I have been clear about the need to gather data to enable us to have a true understanding of the full costs associated with it. ...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I recognise what the minister says about the strength of engagement, but does she recognise that everyone across the chamber will have had communication, eve...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for taking that intervention, minister.
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
I very much recognise those concerns, which I have laid out very clearly to members in the chamber and to committee several times. In fact, I engaged directl...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I have the easiest job in the Parliament tonight, which is to open this debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, because my Scottish Conservative coll...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As we conclude this debate, I do not want to dwell on the journey that the bill has gone through and mention things such as financial memorandums; I want to ...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I follow Martin Whitfield in paying tribute to Liz Smith. At the risk of potentially giving members of my party a bit of buyer’s remorse in relation to their...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I thank Ross Greer for reminding me how old I am. He was in primary 7 in 2006, which was just yesterday for me. I also thank all the staff in the Parliament...
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Willie Rennie LD
On cue, minister.
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
We spoke at length at committee about the number of fantastic outdoor educational opportunities—fair enough; they are not all residential—that many of our sc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for that intervention, Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie LD
I recognise that the minister tried to convince me that progress was made, but whether progress was actually made is another matter. In any case, the working...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We now move to the open debate. 17:23
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I, too, congratulate Liz Smith. I know the work that is needed for a member’s bill. It involves testing the member’s commitment and dealing with obstacles th...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am delighted to stand in support of my colleague and friend Liz Smith’s Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill. Sometimes, we lose sight ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
I hate to be the wet blanket at the party; however, I will start by thanking Liz Smith very much for introducing the bill. I agree with virtually everything ...
Brian Whittle Con
Does John Mason agree that, in addition, that financial memorandum does not include spend to save over a long period of time and that, if we had started 10 y...
John Mason Ind
I agree that there is money to save, but it raises the whole question about preventative spend. We need to spend £1 today, but where is that £1 going to come...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to closing speeches. I call Ross Greer. 17:35
Ross Greer Green
In my opening speech, I mentioned the value of learning about our natural environment in our natural environment and the knowledge and skills that are accumu...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
Thank you. I call Paul O’Kane. 17:39
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to close the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour. I recognise that I have come somewhat late to the process at stage 3, but I have been followin...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
In the time that I have served on the Parliament’s Education, Children and Young People Committee, there has been a recurring theme that teachers, parents an...