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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 16 December 2025 [Draft]

16 Dec 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill
Grahame, Christine SNP Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale Watch on SPTV

I, too, congratulate Liz Smith. I know the work that is needed for a member’s bill. It involves testing the member’s commitment and dealing with obstacles that are put in their way—they just have to navigate their way round them. I did, just as Liz Smith has done, and I can assure everyone that that does not apply just to Opposition members’ bills. Such bills are very personal and close to the member’s heart—as this one is.

I heard the member in charge of the bill on the radio, referring to more and more children finding traditional education a challenge and saying that outdoor activities can be fun in themselves but also therapeutic. I quite agree. Even before Covid disrupted young people’s educational and social experiences, that generation already had challenges that I did not have in my long-lost youth. Their emotional and mental wellbeing is taking a hammering.

In my youth—yes, Mr Rennie, I did have one—there was little telly and no internet; there were just a few parked cars on the street, which became our ad hoc playground. We were exercising outdoors without knowing it. When we were exhausting my late mother’s patience, her mantra—“Go outside: the fresh air will do you good”—turned out to be true.

Introducing the requirement in schools is right and timely, particularly—but not only—because of the explosion in the number of children with additional support needs.

The member in charge will recall that, in the stage 1 debate, I supported the principle of the bill but caveated my support on the issue of funding, so I am heartened to hear the exchanges today on that.

In the stage 1 debate, I referenced the Broomlee outdoor education centre near West Linton, which I have visited on several occasions. It provides residential outdoor experiences for young people—life-changing experiences in the outdoors for children facing the pressures and anxiety of a post-lockdown world, coupled with the difficulties of a cost of living crisis, given that most of them are from less well-off areas.

At the time of that debate, the centre manager, Richard Gerrish, wrote to me. He said:

“This issue is clearly very close to our hearts ... because we have witnessed first-hand the ever-increasing numbers of children from economically disadvantaged areas who are missing out on these valuable experiences”.

I have abbreviated what he said. Much of what the centre provides is reflected in the bill, and I could see Broomlee providing just such experiences.

Many moons ago, as a working-class child, my first time away from my parents was with the girl guides, camping at North Berwick. Later, as a teenager, I went on a fortnight’s retreat to Iona. They were invaluable experiences, so blame the girl guides and Iona for the way I am today.

Finally—other members have said this, but I am not just saying it because they have said it—Liz Smith’s retiral next year will, of course, be a loss to the Parliament, as I also said about Maurice Golden. They are both MSPs whom I value in this Parliament. However, I really must not make a habit of saying such things.

17:26  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-20138, in the name of Liz Smith, on the Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill at stage ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Throughout all my 16 years as a secondary schoolteacher and my subsequent two decades as a parliamentarian, I have been firmly of the view that outdoor educa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
The Government will not have to pay the full amount, but I have read the supplementary financial memorandum and it does not give a figure for what the Govern...
Liz Smith Con
The costs have not changed since the original discussion of that issue. However, as John Mason knows, at stage 2 we added to the bill a period for its staged...
The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes) SNP
Many people will have been privileged, in their youth, to have enjoyed time away from home at a residential outdoor education facility, often in spectacular ...
John Mason Ind
I want to ask the minister the same question that I asked Liz Smith. The minister talked about cost. Does she have any idea what the Government might have to...
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
Throughout the bill process, I have been clear about the need to gather data to enable us to have a true understanding of the full costs associated with it. ...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I recognise what the minister says about the strength of engagement, but does she recognise that everyone across the chamber will have had communication, eve...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for taking that intervention, minister.
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
I very much recognise those concerns, which I have laid out very clearly to members in the chamber and to committee several times. In fact, I engaged directl...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I have the easiest job in the Parliament tonight, which is to open this debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, because my Scottish Conservative coll...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As we conclude this debate, I do not want to dwell on the journey that the bill has gone through and mention things such as financial memorandums; I want to ...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I follow Martin Whitfield in paying tribute to Liz Smith. At the risk of potentially giving members of my party a bit of buyer’s remorse in relation to their...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I thank Ross Greer for reminding me how old I am. He was in primary 7 in 2006, which was just yesterday for me. I also thank all the staff in the Parliament...
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Willie Rennie LD
On cue, minister.
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
We spoke at length at committee about the number of fantastic outdoor educational opportunities—fair enough; they are not all residential—that many of our sc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for that intervention, Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie LD
I recognise that the minister tried to convince me that progress was made, but whether progress was actually made is another matter. In any case, the working...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We now move to the open debate. 17:23
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I, too, congratulate Liz Smith. I know the work that is needed for a member’s bill. It involves testing the member’s commitment and dealing with obstacles th...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am delighted to stand in support of my colleague and friend Liz Smith’s Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill. Sometimes, we lose sight ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
I hate to be the wet blanket at the party; however, I will start by thanking Liz Smith very much for introducing the bill. I agree with virtually everything ...
Brian Whittle Con
Does John Mason agree that, in addition, that financial memorandum does not include spend to save over a long period of time and that, if we had started 10 y...
John Mason Ind
I agree that there is money to save, but it raises the whole question about preventative spend. We need to spend £1 today, but where is that £1 going to come...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to closing speeches. I call Ross Greer. 17:35
Ross Greer Green
In my opening speech, I mentioned the value of learning about our natural environment in our natural environment and the knowledge and skills that are accumu...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
Thank you. I call Paul O’Kane. 17:39
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to close the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour. I recognise that I have come somewhat late to the process at stage 3, but I have been followin...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
In the time that I have served on the Parliament’s Education, Children and Young People Committee, there has been a recurring theme that teachers, parents an...