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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 16 December 2025 [Draft]

16 Dec 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill
Greer, Ross Green West Scotland Watch on SPTV

I follow Martin Whitfield in paying tribute to Liz Smith. At the risk of potentially giving members of my party a bit of buyer’s remorse in relation to their recent leadership vote, I can say without hesitation that I will miss her contributions in the Parliament when she takes her well-earned retirement.

Liz Smith and I have served on the same committees for almost all of the decade that I have been a member of the Parliament. We served on the Education and Skills Committee and the Finance and Public Administration Committee. We agreed on far more than people outside of this building and maybe even some of our own colleagues might have expected. That is probably more true in the education portfolio than finance, but it was a bit of both.

More than that, though, what I really respect about Liz Smith is where we disagree. In this place, it is not always the case that, when we hear a member making a contribution, we believe without a shadow of a doubt that they believe what they are saying. Sometimes members are saying what they have been told to say. Every time that I have profoundly disagreed with Liz Smith, I know that she is coming at the issue from a place of absolute conviction and I can understand why she believes what she does. We need far more of that quality of debate and far more of that kind of principled position in all parties in this place. I believe that the Conservative Party and the Parliament as a whole will be poorer next session as a result of Liz Smith no longer being here.

In starting my contribution at stage 1, I mentioned my experience of the classic primary 7 residential trip, and I bring it up now because some of the amendments that we have made to the bill are relevant to that experience. My class went to Castle Toward in Dunoon, which, for those of my generation, was famous for being the setting for the CBBC show “Raven”. We were all incredibly excited to be using the set of that show when we were there for that trip. However, we almost did not get to go because, the day before we were due to go, back in 2006, we had one of the heaviest snowstorms that Scotland had experienced for years and possibly decades, and the trip was almost cancelled.

I therefore reflect on the fact that some practical and sensible amendments were made to the bill at stage 2 to recognise potentially exceptional circumstances, whereby it might well be that the obligation to provide the opportunity is not possible to fulfil in some circumstances. Schools and local authorities should not be held liable for circumstances that are outwith their control.

The Greens will, of course, support the bill at stage 3. We have supported it throughout the process because it fulfils our manifesto commitments to guarantee every pupil at least a week of residential outdoor experience, to remove the financial barriers to that and to expand outdoor play and learning provision across the board.

The benefits of outdoor education are undisputed, certainly across the Parliament and even among those who might be sceptical about the specific proposals in the bill. We all recognise that the physical and mental health benefits are undisputed, as is the ability to develop skills such as team working and the transformational impact that outdoor learning can have on the social development of individual young people, and in particular on their confidence.

I said at stage 1 that we cannot see outdoor education as just being that one-off week of residential education, often in primary 7. I know that that is certainly not the bill’s intention, but we should also probably recognise that that week has a particular place in the popular imagination of people across the country. We need to make it clear that outdoor education is about so much more than that. We now have a fantastic resource in learning for sustainability in Scotland, where we can push the on-going experience of outdoor education not only in our natural environment but in the built environment, although there is a particular benefit in learning about our natural environment in the natural environment.

Such is the nature of these curtailed debates that I will finish here, not because I am closing but because, in a few minutes, I will get up again to deliver my closing speech. I will deliver concluding remarks at that point and so will end abruptly now.

17:18  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-20138, in the name of Liz Smith, on the Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill at stage ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Throughout all my 16 years as a secondary schoolteacher and my subsequent two decades as a parliamentarian, I have been firmly of the view that outdoor educa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
The Government will not have to pay the full amount, but I have read the supplementary financial memorandum and it does not give a figure for what the Govern...
Liz Smith Con
The costs have not changed since the original discussion of that issue. However, as John Mason knows, at stage 2 we added to the bill a period for its staged...
The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes) SNP
Many people will have been privileged, in their youth, to have enjoyed time away from home at a residential outdoor education facility, often in spectacular ...
John Mason Ind
I want to ask the minister the same question that I asked Liz Smith. The minister talked about cost. Does she have any idea what the Government might have to...
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
Throughout the bill process, I have been clear about the need to gather data to enable us to have a true understanding of the full costs associated with it. ...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I recognise what the minister says about the strength of engagement, but does she recognise that everyone across the chamber will have had communication, eve...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for taking that intervention, minister.
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
I very much recognise those concerns, which I have laid out very clearly to members in the chamber and to committee several times. In fact, I engaged directl...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I have the easiest job in the Parliament tonight, which is to open this debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, because my Scottish Conservative coll...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As we conclude this debate, I do not want to dwell on the journey that the bill has gone through and mention things such as financial memorandums; I want to ...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I follow Martin Whitfield in paying tribute to Liz Smith. At the risk of potentially giving members of my party a bit of buyer’s remorse in relation to their...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I thank Ross Greer for reminding me how old I am. He was in primary 7 in 2006, which was just yesterday for me. I also thank all the staff in the Parliament...
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Willie Rennie LD
On cue, minister.
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
We spoke at length at committee about the number of fantastic outdoor educational opportunities—fair enough; they are not all residential—that many of our sc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for that intervention, Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie LD
I recognise that the minister tried to convince me that progress was made, but whether progress was actually made is another matter. In any case, the working...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We now move to the open debate. 17:23
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I, too, congratulate Liz Smith. I know the work that is needed for a member’s bill. It involves testing the member’s commitment and dealing with obstacles th...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am delighted to stand in support of my colleague and friend Liz Smith’s Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill. Sometimes, we lose sight ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
I hate to be the wet blanket at the party; however, I will start by thanking Liz Smith very much for introducing the bill. I agree with virtually everything ...
Brian Whittle Con
Does John Mason agree that, in addition, that financial memorandum does not include spend to save over a long period of time and that, if we had started 10 y...
John Mason Ind
I agree that there is money to save, but it raises the whole question about preventative spend. We need to spend £1 today, but where is that £1 going to come...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to closing speeches. I call Ross Greer. 17:35
Ross Greer Green
In my opening speech, I mentioned the value of learning about our natural environment in our natural environment and the knowledge and skills that are accumu...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
Thank you. I call Paul O’Kane. 17:39
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to close the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour. I recognise that I have come somewhat late to the process at stage 3, but I have been followin...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
In the time that I have served on the Parliament’s Education, Children and Young People Committee, there has been a recurring theme that teachers, parents an...